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Design Flaw in As

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  • Design Flaw in As

    I have noticed that on As or A2s if you puch the reset button as the rake goes up from setting a new rack, the lane will cycle again but get stuck in the flying 180 position. Anyone else ever noticed that? It happens on both types I noticed.

  • #2
    Re: Design Flaw in As

    What you are talking about is when the reset button is pushed the solenoid pulls the clutch latch out from under the roller on the clutch reset lever.This causes the clutch to stay engaged and cycle the machine into the False 180 stop (flying 180, hanging bananas,et al) Model A-2s have a double switch set-up in the electrical box, one is for triggering the machine and the other is wired in line with the reset button and is supposed to disable the button when the rake is down. My model As have a mercury switch on the rake lift shaft that does the above mentioned function.

    billman

    [This message has been edited by billman (edited 08-18-2000).]
    let me be myself

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Design Flaw in As

      As bill said, a mercury switch added to the rabbit ear shaft, wired in series with one wire of the reset switch, cures this problem. I don't consider it a design flaw, because there is no reason to push the reset button in the middle of a cycle.

      I'm going to re-wire things so all reset switches are behind the desk, with switches to let the league bowlers use them when practice is over. More rakes get hit due to ignorant use of the reset button in open play than any other cause.

      Also, if you have automatic OOR kits on the machines, it would save lots of score erasures when open bowlers don't think the machine actually cycled, because deadwood is still on the lane, and they don't look at the 1/2 lights, indeed, probably don't know what they are for .

      Little kids just love to play with buttons, and they don't know what mayhem they will cause when they do, best thing is to take them away, and only allow their use when the person bowling knows what they are doing.

      Kevin

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Design Flaw in As

        Right on KL, We have photo-triggering on our model As and automatic scoring so there is no reason to ever push the reset button. If a rerack is needed it can be done from the auto-scorer console. We disconnected the reset buttons about 10 years ago and do not miss them at all!!

        billman
        let me be myself

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Design Flaw in As

          You can also grind the accurator lever so to let the pinsetter finish its cycle and not stop at 180.It is a simple modification and eliminates "banana trees".If you would like I can give you the dimensions for the modification.

          Good luck
          Peanut
          Peanut

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Design Flaw in As

            Masternut:
            Glad to see you posting again.
            As this is a result of the 180 pin not able to get into the slot at 270, (actually about 285), owing to the fact, either the buttons been pushed at that time or the out of range slotted link is rough at the top, dragging the ledge out from under the roller at that same point in time. Please post your grinding procedure.
            Thanking you:
            Roscoe
            rfm

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Design Flaw in As

              Come on Peanut,Give!! Some of us would like to know what you have done. Pretty please!!!

              billman
              let me be myself

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Design Flaw in As

                I have used the Mod that Peanut is talking about, it works very well. It has been years since I have had to use it. I dont remember off the top of my head what the specs were.
                Maybe Peanut can help out here.

                Mike
                Mike Wilson
                Bowl-Tech Inc..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Design Flaw in As

                  I have changed a wire in the pinsetter to electrically solve the problem you have described. It does not solve the problem of the clutch latch not falling under the pin due to mechanical problems though. If anyone is interested, I moved wire 42 from TS2-11 to wire 56 which attaches to the common leg of TSC1. This takes the leg of the front reset button that runs to terminal 17 on the time delay module and moves it to leg 18 of the time delay module. When the rake is up, terminal 17 and 18 are shorted together through the TSC1 common and TSC1 normally closed contacts. When the front reset button is pressed, the voltage from terminal 16 of the time delay module is moved to the common side of TSC1 and since it is connected to 17 of the time delay module by flowing through TSC1 normally closed contacts, the time delay module triggers as if it were still directly connected to terminal 17. When the rake falls, TSC1 changes condition causing the path for wire 42 to be severed from terminal 17 of the time delay module. Since pressing the reset button now will cause terminals 16 and 18 to be shorted, nothing will happen because when the rake fell…TSC1 already shorted those two terminals together. The front reset button can no longer cycle the time delay module while the rake is down. As this idea only solves the electrical problem…knowing Peanuts idea of grinding the actuator would be interesting to try to stop the mechanical problem.

                  Just my two cents worth…

                  Steve
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Design Flaw in As

                    This is a case where a picture is worth a thousand words...I hope this makes sense....from the point of the accurator(below the slot)measure 3/16 inches in and 7/8 inches down and mark a diagonal line.Grind down to line eleminating the point.Now when the clutch reset lever falls out of accurator at 285 the reset lever spring pulls the clutch reset lever up slope and doesn't stop.

                    Also if you are having 270 w/standing pins you can replace clutch stop arm spring #12-100296 with a pin gate spring #12-450051 this weaker spring will not overpower the slop in the linkage and makes the adjustment less sensitive.Caution make sure that clutch lever arm doesn't fall off the stop arm....as a check at 0 I lift up on clutch lever and let it fall...to see if it slips off stop arm.We have done this to all are lanes and never have a 270 stop unless bad part.
                    Hope this helps
                    Peanut
                    Peanut

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Design Flaw in As

                      Originally posted by masternut
                      This is a case where a picture is worth a thousand words...I hope this makes sense....from the point of the accurator(below the slot)measure 3/16 inches in and 7/8 inches down and mark a diagonal line.Grind down to line eleminating the point.Now when the clutch reset lever falls out of accurator at 285 the reset lever spring pulls the clutch reset lever up slope and doesn't stop.

                      Also if you are having 270 w/standing pins you can replace clutch stop arm spring #12-100296 with a pin gate spring #12-450051 this weaker spring will not overpower the slop in the linkage and makes the adjustment less sensitive.Caution make sure that clutch lever arm doesn't fall off the stop arm....as a check at 0 I lift up on clutch lever and let it fall...to see if it slips off stop arm.We have done this to all are lanes and never have a 270 stop unless bad part.
                      Hope this helps
                      Peanut


                      Thanks very nice!
                      Thank You All! For All the prayers and and the out pouring of good spirits in my time of need greatly appreciated!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Design Flaw in As

                        Originally posted by Steve Stafford (JBEES)
                        I have changed a wire in the pinsetter to electrically solve the problem you have described. It does not solve the problem of the clutch latch not falling under the pin due to mechanical problems though. If anyone is interested, I moved wire 42 from TS2-11 to wire 56 which attaches to the common leg of TSC1. This takes the leg of the front reset button that runs to terminal 17 on the time delay module and moves it to leg 18 of the time delay module. When the rake is up, terminal 17 and 18 are shorted together through the TSC1 common and TSC1 normally closed contacts. When the front reset button is pressed, the voltage from terminal 16 of the time delay module is moved to the common side of TSC1 and since it is connected to 17 of the time delay module by flowing through TSC1 normally closed contacts, the time delay module triggers as if it were still directly connected to terminal 17. When the rake falls, TSC1 changes condition causing the path for wire 42 to be severed from terminal 17 of the time delay module. Since pressing the reset button now will cause terminals 16 and 18 to be shorted, nothing will happen because when the rake fell…TSC1 already shorted those two terminals together. The front reset button can no longer cycle the time delay module while the rake is down. As this idea only solves the electrical problem…knowing Peanuts idea of grinding the actuator would be interesting to try to stop the mechanical problem.

                        Just my two cents worth…

                        Steve
                        Steve, are you still using this configuration? Any issues crop up with it in the past few years?
                        <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Design Flaw in As

                          I have it in a few centers with no issues.
                          TSM & TSM Training Development
                          Main Event Entertainment
                          480-620-6758 for help or information

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Design Flaw in As

                            I want to know what a "banana tree" is!



                            Around here they look like this!
                            Old and obsolete? It's new to me!

                            Comment

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