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Moving deck is slamming!!!!

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  • Moving deck is slamming!!!!

    On one of the lanes at a center I just started working at...the moving deck sorta slams back to hard to set pins. It's an A model pinsetter. Any ideas would be great!!

    ßA
    Toledo, Ohio

  • #2
    Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

    check your 1to1 and see if its skiping

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

      Hey Chaser
      Definetly check if the moving deck/scissor cam has a broken key.
      The cam will hesitate or pop during a normal cycle.
      Check if all 4 geneva rollers are still on.
      Check if the deck cable is too tight.
      It also could be that someone before you has worked on this machine and wound the deck torsion spring one turn too many.
      Check if the moving deck cam follower moves easily with the cables off.
      If it is not the cam key I would put the deck at 270 and remove the cables and try to find where it is binding when shifting back,also do another machine and you might be able to tell if it is much harder to pull the cable forward that the spring is wound too tight.
      Happy hunting
      Grambo

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

        I'd also take a look at the motor pulley, Measure diameter of M/GB pulley and compare to the neighbors. If someone put a Jetback pulley on this machine, the increased speed will cause a slam all by itself.

        I agree with Grambo to examine the tension on the moving deck torsion spring compared to the other machines, but beware, you can only adjust this in full turns (safety first here, there was a thread on how to safely wind the spring !!!!), and sometimes taking the turn off will cause insufficient tension for the deck to shift properly, I have one machine here that has a "new" moving deck, and it's a choice between her banging and, with one turn less, not shifting at all. A jetback will always slam compared to a regular A, but this one slams hard for a jetback ...

        I intend to take both geneva plates off, and put a level across the rollers on both sides to see if she's got a twisted shaft or broken roll pin in the 10 pin side, as soon as things calm down a bit.

        Kevin

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

          HEY THANKS BRANDON
          YOUR POSTING GOT SOME GOOD RESPONSES HERE.
          TALKED TO THE OTHER PLACE YOU WORK AT AND HE POINTED ME IN SOME OF THE SAME DIRECTIONS.

          JUST MAKES ME SAY YOU ARE ON TOP OF THINGS.

          THANKS AGAIN
          THE CENTER YOU WORK AT.

          JEFF KUHNLE
          TWIN OAKS LANES
          TOLEDO OHIO
          WE ARE NOW REALLY TWIN OAKS LANES.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

            We have 10 machines in our center that have slamming moving decks. Found the cause to be the wrong style moving deck-scissor cam. This causes the deck to shift harder and we've had some major problems with moving decks breaking due to spotting fingers slamming up against the main deck. The head tech pulled a 1:1 on one of these problem childs and put the right cam on there and no more slamming!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

              Bruns:

              Slamming caused by the wrong cam would happen on an A2 with an A cam installed. Since chaser has A machines, the cam profile would not cause the problem, as an A2 cam is designed to run faster than an A cam.

              The Jet is the middle case, an A cam run at speed between A and A2, the decks shift back hard and quick. Fringe benefit: pins don't stick in buckets

              Kevin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                HEY GUYS
                I OWN THE HOUSE THAT CHASER STARTED AT.
                HE IS ON TOP OF THINGS.

                THE PROBLEM MAINLY STARTED AFTER I WENT THROUGH AND CLEANED, CHECKED, AND GREASED UP THE GEAR BOX CLUTCHES.

                1ST PROBLEM WAS WHEN THE DECK WENT TO PICK UP STANDING PINS THE MOVING DECK MADE A SLIGHT MOVE FORWARD. O K MADE AN ADJUSTMENT ON THE CLUTCH AND WAS ALRIGHT.
                2ND PROBLEM NOW THE MOVING DECK WHEN IT GOES TO SET A FULL DECK SHIFTS HARD TO THE REAR, AND WHEN THE RAKE IS MOVING FORWARD THE BOARD MAKES A HOP BEFOR IT GETS FULLY FORWARD. MADE A SLIGHT ADJUSTMENT ON THE DECK CABLE, MADE A BIT OF AN IMPROVEMENT.

                PLEASE, ANY HELP FOR THIS #@%&@+* MACHINE.
                IT'S DRIVING ME NUTS. ALL THE OTHER MACHINES RUNNING NICE AND SMOOTH UNTIL YOU GET TO LANE 10....

                JEFF KUHNLE
                TWIN OAKS LANES
                TOLEDO OHIO
                WE ARE NOW REALLY TWIN OAKS LANES.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                  Sounds like you have a bad key on the 1:1 gear inside the gearbox. Cycle pinsetter to 130 degrees or so and shut off machine. Grab the rake lift cam and see if it will rotate back and forth. Any movement shows a bad key. With you saying the rake board jumps and the deck shifts hard leans towards the key on the inside of the gear box.

                  Just my two cents worth...

                  Steve
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                    Hi B!
                    Sounds like a real head-scratcher! Like any "odd" running machine, would be nice to be there and observe... but the SCISSOR AND MOVING DECK cam sounds like a good start. Make sure the rollers fallow the cam well... and, check the MOVING DECK SHEAVE under the gear box to make sure it's not binding up. D
                    What do we do with the bits left over?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                      KL Kevin
                      You're right. The machines at the center I work at are A2 conversions and some of the machines have the old cams on them still. Thanks for the clarification. I've been working on these Brunswick monsters for about 4 years now but still have alot of learning to do and any info is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                        I have done work in several houses where mechanics have installed the wrong cam.If you look at the two cams side by side you will see there is a slight difference between
                        the two(hard to explain in words) but if you do not know exactly what it is it is easy to miss.The machines will run basically ok but you usually have some pin wobble when it sets
                        new pins.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                          [QUOTE]Originally posted by KL Kevin:
                          [B]Bruns:

                          Kevin: The difference in moving deck cams are the high dwells. The newer style cams on Jet Backs & A2's are more rounded on the high dwells to allow smoother shifting due the faster speed of the Pinsetter.

                          EDJ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                            There are at least 5 different Moving Deck/scissor cams I have seen over the years -

                            Pinsetters with long link:
                            1. Older "A" style large center hub
                            2. Newer "A" style smaller center hub

                            Note: these will bang the deck forward fairly hard when run faster than original "A" speed.

                            3. Field converted A2 style has split center hub and bolt/nut clamp for field installation, outer diameter (cam surface) optimized for faster speeds.

                            4. Factory "A2" style has solid center hub with same outer contour at FC model.


                            5. For scotch-yoke machines there is a cam with a very slightly different outer contour that I believe delays the deck motion at 270 degrees.

                            The last 3 cams were all machined from the same forging and have the same part number molded into them. Verify before replacement that you are installing the correct cam. Remove the old cam from the shaft and trace it on a piece of paper (center and outside). Place the new cam on the paper and verify it matches EXACTLY. A factory A2 or A2-FC will not work properly on a scotch yoke machine and vice-versa. There will be trouble with wobbly pin spotting.


                            Ken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Moving deck is slamming!!!!

                              [i agree with kevin on the motor pulley. i have had the same problem at my center, but i found that it was the scissor cam that was causing it.

                              Comment

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