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  • pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

    i have one straight-a machine with a "pins in scissors" problem that, what ever ive tried, will still persist to evade me, but only occurs maybe once or twice a week. ive gone through every possible avenue of repair, including, but not limited to, delay plunger adjustment, replacement of the new pin solenoid, replacement of the cycle actuator relay, cycle link, and other various actions, but to no avail. the scoring system isnt causing it, and the reset button has been disconnected at the machine. any clues??

  • #2
    Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

    Question: Is it a true 180 stop (clutch latch open), or just a normal (latch in and down) stop??

    Kevin

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    • #3
      Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

      I would move the clutch latch to the machine next to it and see if the problem moves. Clutch latches can wear and look normal to the naked eye. It could be slipping off as it is lowered towards 0 degrees. We can assume you checked the starter bellcrank spring. Moving the clutch latch will take you less than 5 minutes. Give it a shot.

      KL how could the machine stop at a false 180 and have the clutch latch "in and DOWN". Isn't the clutch reset lever up at 180?

      Just my two cents worth...

      Steve
      TSM & TSM Training Development
      Main Event Entertainment
      480-620-6758 for help or information

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      • #4
        Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

        Jeebs, the clutch arm stop can become worn and allow the clutch stop arm to slip off. this will cause some pretty weird cycling. The clutch latch will be down and latched under the roller. I have seen this alot on A-2s with the stamped steel stop arm. Pretty rare on model As with the cast iron stop arm.

        billman
        let me be myself

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        • #5
          Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

          StraightA:
          Have seen a rough slot in the out of range pull rod, (where it is pinned to the starter bellcrank) cause 180s, pins in sissors.
          Roscoe
          rfm

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          • #6
            Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

            Ahhh yes....the famous "Banana Rack"! This is how you fix this easy problem. These are caused by bowlers being trigger happy. Mainly little kids. The little ones push the reset button just as the rake is going up to 0 degrees on 1st ball disengaging the clutch to early and when the pinsetter cycles itself after 0 degrees goes to pick up the pins and stops at 180 degrees. I don't know what causes it to make it stop at 180...but I know an easy fix is to go up front or call the counter and tell the bowlers to only hit the reset when needed!! Just something to think about....=)

            Brandon Adams
            Imperial and Twin Oaks Lanes
            Toledo, Ohio

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            • #7
              Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

              Brandon,

              while I'm sure your post was well intentioned, I feel I must respectfully disagree with your suggestion. The only person in the building that cares less why a stop happens than your counter person is the customer. YOU are there to keep the machines running with as few problems as possible.

              If you are certain that your banana tree's are being caused in this manner, why have you not done something to prevent it?

              Your solution could be as easy as installing a mercury switch on the V lever spliced into one wire of the bowlers reset cable so the circuit is only completed when the rake is fully up.

              People like us (mechanics) sometimes forget that others (customers) are not interested in how the pinsetters work.

              Mark

              [This message has been edited by A2goldman (edited 11-29-2000).]

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              • #8
                Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

                Sorry man...i'm only a pinchaser. That's all I know what to do. I don't know how to install a mercury switch on V-levers. What are v-levers?

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                • #9
                  Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

                  you say this hapens 1-2 times/week. Don't know if this will help but check your reset cable from the machine to the ball rack. maybe a bare wire shorting on ball track or some other part of equipt. this has happened to me.

                  good luck

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                  • #10
                    Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

                    Pinchaser,

                    "v levers" I was refering to are the ends of the rake lift shaft, the highest shaft on the top of the pinsetter. When the rake drops, you will notice the shaft rotates, and the "v" pivots. By mounting a mercury switch in this location at the proper angle, you can "lock out" the bowlers reset button unless the rake is in the fully up position (0 degrees).

                    Check your ZOT catalog, I dont know if they still offer a stand alone kit for this, but look in the triggering section, I'm sure there will be a diagram of a mercury switch mounted on a "U" bolt that installs on the rake lift shaft for this purpose.

                    Mark

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                    • #11
                      Re: pins in scissors, banana tree, whatever you call it

                      update!!
                      problem solved.....first off, id like to thank everyone for their knowledgeable inputs and suggestions, but it was not caused by any of the "suspect" problems (kids and buttons, worn latch or bellcrank, etc.). my straight a's are all cycled by the amf accuscore "xl" scoring system, so all my mechanical cycle switches have been either eliminated or disconnected. the only possible cycle button to cause it is the cycle button on the machine itself. so, leaving all conventional logic to the masses, i checked into the cycle contacts in the machine interface unit, which is the only other way to cycle the pinsetter. come to find out, the mi unit was the cause!! it would hold the cycle through a first ball, a second ball, then another first ball, where it would get stuck in a pins in scissors, until the 180 interlock link was swatted back in and the solenoids plunger was pulled.in finding this problem, i was compelled to contact amf tech support for a correction to this problem, to no avail. i was forced to find an alternative, and came up with two mercury switches on the "v" shaped rabbit ear bar. thanx again, guys...

                      ------------------

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