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  • respots

    Heavy lineage,rev40 oil=respots?We
    do get just way too many respots
    and the mechanic tried having me
    change the wiring on electronic
    triggering but as i knew..no
    help.By watching the machines
    carefully and i noticed it more on
    the end machine is this...machine
    cycles,picks up standing pins,as
    machine comes to it's highest lift
    point(do'nt know degree)i noticed
    the geneva rollers shift THEN then
    the deck shifts slightly,pins are
    set down OFF SPOT(forward)and
    scissors release,deck goes up and
    pins wobble.Caught on machine
    ALMOST making the 10 pin fall over
    by this action.Max pins,foam deck
    pads,A-2 units,jetback speed.Just
    about every machine set pins on
    spot,chutes are not hitting pins as
    it comes up nor do pins wobble when
    new rack is set.Now then..if i
    adjust m/d cables then slop will
    occur,if i adjust clutch up higher
    i run a risk of cycling.Which way
    do i go?Have tried adjusting
    scissor cables BEFOR i saw machines
    do this.Normally seems to be the 10
    pin side but it can go in spurts
    like the 6 pin,7 pin,5 pin.I see
    the geneva rollers are way off on a
    few machines but for the most part
    everything is good and level.Pick
    up pin(s),deck
    shifts,pin(s)respot,and pin falls
    over or is spotted forward about
    3/8 of an inch or so...it can
    vary.Long winded-sorry buy tried to
    give as much info as possible.ANY
    areas to go first?Second?Third?
    THANKS MEN!!Some days it can be the
    1,3,5 get's respotted,varies sooooo
    much.But WAY TOO MANY!!!
    [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

  • #2
    Re: respots

    WHY it's happening:

    Just past 180 degrees is where the moving deck starts to shift back to set new pins on strike or second ball cycle. On standing pins cycle, the moving deck follower is blocked out by the flag, but there's always a little slop there, when the moving deck cam follower comes off the high dwell of the cam. (flag must have enough clearance to move freely).

    I'd take a look at the bushings in the moving deck follower, and the shaft it rides on, and also the condition of the blocking surfaces, and the hole in the steel plate on the detector. Highly likely you'll find something worn out (hopefully only the bushings)

    Hope this helps:

    Kevin

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    • #3
      Re: respots

      hey check out the moving deck itself for cracks especialy around the 5 pin bucket, also check the deck slides could be loose, had one of these myself, or worn out

      lots of luck
      joe [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
      PINSETTERMECH

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      • #4
        Re: respots

        if your moving deck is shifting on you at 180 most likely your moving deck cable is adjusted to loose. as kevin said check your cam follower, maybe the bolt snapped on the shaft. good hunting

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: respots

          Good choice Stephen. Start at the bottom and most likly place aqnd work up from there. Deck cable being loose is most common, especally if they have been there a while. Then go to the cam follower and shaft. while there check where the hole in the 1:1 support plate to make sure it is not worn to badly, where cam follower shaft rest. An oblonged hole here will cause to much movement in the cam follower and allow moving-deck movement as well. Kevin had some good ideas as well, but then again, he normally does. Happy hunting. By the waqy it's nice to be back in here. Seems like it's been forever. Hope things have been going well gentelmen & ladies.

          [ February 27, 2001: Message edited by: ObiWan ]
          May the FORCE be with you, Always.

          ObiWan

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: respots

            Stephen hit this one right. While at it I beleive that stop collars should be added to all cam follower shafts as an exrta safety measure, sure can save alot of broken parts I added the split collar to all my machines and put on the solid version whenever I change the shaft.

            OBIWAN good to see you posting again, may the force be with you!

            Playball2hard
            Treat everyday like it could be your last day!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: respots

              I'll look into all advice given.Cables are about 2 years old(yup...all of them!)Normally when i drop machines down to 270 for cleanings,inspections,lubings, i will grab the m/d cam followers to check for movement,they all have the collars on them.Sorry it was long winded but if a person can give plenty of information it helps you GOOD folks out to give advice even better.THANKS for the input!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: respots

                Check the ends of your cables for fraying. This can cause the cable to stretch. Also check that the cable is on its guide, just as it is coming out of the spring tube. If either of these happen, it will cause a deck to shift.
                <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

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                • #9
                  Re: respots

                  Glad to hear from you again ObiWan
                  Peanut

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: respots

                    A much simpler and quicker solution. Do a deck height adjustment(spotting new pins), then adjust your moving deck cable. Both according to the manual of course.

                    I have found after a couple of decades of sanding, guys tend to neglect the first adjustment. When they start having problems spotting new pins, they adjust the deck cable to compensate. Eventually, the cable is run far enough out that the moving deck goes all the way back to the roll pin stop on the stationary deck when the deck is fully open. the way to check this is look at the MD cable when the deck is in it's rear most position. I would bet the farm that it has some slack in it. You don't notice it because of the keeper spring.

                    This will cause the mysterious slight shift you see during a first ball cycle. I know it sounds hard to believe, but I've seen it, and cured it myself.
                    Idiocracy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: respots

                      Check the flag I have seen them wear at the blocking point of the moving deck cam follower.This happend because the deck cable
                      hit the frame at 180 and 0 degrees.It also bent the deck post shaft. The flag had a big hole in it.I had to raise the pinsetter with
                      the jack screws and lower the deck height at
                      270.
                      http://www.bowlingcomputersolutions.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: respots

                        Nighthawk;
                        As K.L. Kevin pointed out, there has to be some movement of the deck cable at 180 to allow the cam follower to go on to the flag.
                        The object of the excercise is to limit the movement of the deck related to the movement of the geneva rollers.
                        As in any crankshaft, (which the deck operating shaft is), there is no movement of the operated mechanism between 5 degrees before top dead center till 5 degrees after top dead center. Therefore, if your deck cable is adjusted, so that at true 0 degree (as far as the moving deck cam follower is on high dwell fully), your genevas are close to top dead center, usually bottom of roller is 1/8 up slot, you should have no movement of deck at the 180 shift.
                        As others have pointed out, you may have too large a gap from the flag to the cam follower block, owing to numerable circumstances, have personally had to build up the cam follower to alieviate this condition, however rarely.
                        I usually start the deck down(empty) to about 20 degrees, set my deck cable adjustment so that the one roller in the slot, is 1/8 inch higher at its bottom than the front side of the geneva plate, this usually places it in the desired 5 to 10 degree range.
                        As mentioned earlier, rough pin spotting involves many factors, but respotting does not.
                        When making a cable adjustment this way, one only has to stop the mch. at exactly 270 spotting pins, shut off mch, untill all wobble is gone, then restart, and observe whether deck buckets or spotting fingers cause movement, adjust as needed.
                        Most wobbly pins, on setting are caused by incorrect deck heights.
                        There is much more to this subject, but usually this gets it in the ballpark.
                        Hope of some help.
                        Roscoe.
                        rfm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: respots

                          It has been my experience that if the deck shifts back while respotting standing pins, the MD control cable is stretched or frayed. If the deck shifts slightly forward at the start of the cycle then its probably the lower cable that is loose, or like kevin said the GB clutch is slightly out of adjustment. If you still have many respots after that I would check the deck stabilizer bars for adjustment and jam nuts being tight (old style) or bolts being tight new style. Place the deck at 270 setting new pins on a couple of 2x4's one in front under the head pin spot and one in back in between the back row and the middle row. Make sur that both boards are pretty flat. Then you can adjust the stab bars accordingly to get the deck level. Also if you have the new style gear box (die cast) check the dashpot stop screw the plastic might be broken causing recycle every once in a while. William

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