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  • Shifting Deck

    I'm having a problem with the deck moving slightly forward (1/4 to 1/2 inch) when it starts to go down for standing pins. It sometimes causes jams with several pins [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

    Thanks
    Dennis

  • #2
    Re: Shifting Deck

    Gress, I would say you should check your 1:1 shaft, you possibly have a worn keyway or shaft.

    PC

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    • #3
      Re: Shifting Deck

      Most probable cause is the gearbox clutch being slightly out of adjustment, stopping too low. When this happens, the md/scissor cam hasn't had the chance to pull the deck all the way forward.

      When the machine begins to cycle, the moving deck follower was not fully forward, so it proceeds to tighten the cable, causing deck to shift forward, causing your headache.

      A related headache is that when this happens, the interlock may not get the signal that the deck is fully forward, causing the turret to not release pins until the machine begins to cycle.

      Kevin

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      • #4
        Re: Shifting Deck

        I agree with both of these replies.
        Some quick visual indications can help aid your troubleshooting.
        Check when the machine stops at zero.
        If you have old model A rake crank rods it should stop at zero in parallel with the 4-1.
        If it is the new thicker crank rod it should stop at zero with the crank rod just on top of the washer on the 4-1 but still in parallel.
        If you suspect the 1-1 shaft or key watch the machine go through cycle.
        Pay close attention to the moving deck/scissor cam.
        It will either pop forward or hesitate during a cycle if this is the problem.
        Happy hunting.
        Graham

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        • #5
          Re: Shifting Deck

          I agree with all the above....you also may want to check your deck cable,if it is too loose it will be still in the transistion part of the cam (Geneva Plates)at 0. I all ways cycle the pinsetter to about 15 degrees and tighten deck cable until the geneva bearings are straight across from each other(Parallel to the lane).I have always done this with no problems,it is the only cable adjustment I use.

          Goodluck,
          Peanut
          Peanut

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          • #6
            Re: Shifting Deck

            I checked clutch adjustments. O.K. Not sure what you mean by the moving deck / scissor cam [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Did notice that retaining spring comes off at bottom of the L shaped hook every time it sets new pins. Still new to machines and don't understand all the terminoligy you guys use yet.
            Help!
            Dennis

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shifting Deck

              Hey Dennis
              Look at the 2 large cams on the right side of the gearbox.
              The one closest to the gearbox is the moving deck/scissors cam.
              The one on the outside is your rake cam.
              With the machine going through cycles watch these 2 cams.
              They should both turn smoothly.
              If you have a broken keyway you will notice the moving deck cam will hesitate or pop forward.
              If you have an internal problem both cams will hesitate or pop.
              Most likely just the moving deck cam is slipping on a broken key.
              Your other problem with the spring could be your deck cable is adjusted too loose.
              Hope this helps.
              Graham

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              • #8
                Re: Shifting Deck

                I DO BELEIVE THEY HAVE THIS ONE RIGHT FOR YOU. MY 1-1 PROBLEM SHOWED UP THE SAME WAY.


                JEFF KUHNLE
                TWIN OAKS LANES
                TOLEDO OHIO
                WE ARE NOW REALLY TWIN OAKS LANES.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shifting Deck

                  Grambo
                  I checked the moving deck - scissors cam. It appears to be O.K. It turns smoothly, no hesitation or jerky motion. I compared it to some other machines and it seems the same as them. Any other thoughts?

                  Thanks
                  Dennis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shifting Deck

                    Gress,
                    I would go back and reread what kevin had posted ,most of the time when you get that little shift just as the machine starts to move its a gear box clutch adjustment problem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shifting Deck

                      Dennis:
                      I tend to agree with David's suggestion, however one thing not mentioned is the possibility of a twisted key instead of a loose one, which results in such a condition.
                      One way to check this is to run mch. to exactly 90 degrees, shut off, and observe the slash mark on the side of the sissors cam.
                      At 90, it should be within 3/32" rearward of dead center of the sissors cam follower , can point dead center, but no more than the 3'32. rearward.
                      If your model mchs. does not have the slash mark on cam, go to exactly 0 degrees and look at the moving deck cam follower, if it is not on high dwell at that point, the keystock is twisted.
                      Roscoe.
                      rfm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shifting Deck

                        Just a thought, but...

                        Did this just suddenly start happening, or has it always been like this.

                        What you might want to check is to make sure the 1 to 1 is in time.

                        There is an access hole in the 1 - 1 cover to check this. Remove the plug (allen screw) from the hole, and use an angled mirror and a flashlight to look inside. With the gearbox at 0, you should be able to see the little marks on the gears. One gear has 2 marks, the other has one. The mark on the gear with one mark should be in between the other 2.

                        If the timing is off here, you'll have to remove the 1-1 to fix it.

                        Lets hope this isn't the problem though. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
                        <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

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                        • #13
                          Re: Shifting Deck

                          Gress,

                          Watch the Deck Holding Hook at (what should be zero degrees) first ball cycle and cycle the pinsetter, If the hook lifts slightly you are not at true zero. You will need to make a clutch adjustment at this point. After making your clutch adjust cycle the A/P through several cycles to see if the shifting troubles have improved.
                          Also check out the condition of the bearing on the Moving Deck cam follower it can wear out over time.

                          hope this helps along with many other great suggestions posted here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shifting Deck

                            Hey Dennis
                            You could try adjusting your gearbox clutch out a touch.
                            Adjust the 1/4-28 bolt that goes through the bottom of the clutch yoke, loosen it maybe 1 or 2 turns and see what happens.
                            Another thing you can try is to trim your deck chutes.
                            Each deck chute has a skirt of about an inch that fits inside the deck.
                            By cutting this skirt off the deck chute it gives the pin more room to sit and greatly decreases deck jams.
                            Graham

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shifting Deck

                              Adam's thought on the 1/1 timing is on target, but ... as roscoe said, a twisted key, with the 1/1 perfectly in time, would still cause this problem.

                              Best check, as roscoe said is to look at the slash mark on md/scissor cam at 90, should go straight through the center of the scissor cam follower.

                              Pic has the slash mark in yellow, a little hard to see, but you can pick it out.

                              You can tell the overtravels on these machines were pinned out years ago ... LOL!!!
                              <a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.catskill.net/kiamesha/setter/SLASH.jpg</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

                              Kevin

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