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  • Bouncing Deck

    Wow, a bunch of deck problems on here lately...Here's mine...

    When the deck goes to set new pins, it is bouncing excessively, causing spotting problems. I've replaced the bearings on and in the deck shaft, and in the lowering link. I've also replaced the spring tube. I've reduced it a little from what it was, but it's still not acceptible.

    Could this be in the 2 to 1 or somewhere else in the gearbox? I wanted to ask here before I tore into it.

    Any ideas appreciated.

    Adam D.
    <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

  • #2
    Re: Bouncing Deck

    I'm sure there are a lot here with more and better ideas, but one thought that comes to mind is a bad stabilizer arm (I'm sure that's an incorrect term...) or bearing. If one side's considerably tighter than the other, I could see it jumping around somewhat. Does it do it on a strike cycle, too? Or ~only~ when setting new pins? (could discount the 2nd ball cycle, since the deck doesn't move as far, perhaps... I'm still using my imagination on the bouncing part though, so I may be ~way~ off target here... but it's a thought,
    Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

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    • #3
      Re: Bouncing Deck

      Thanks Olds..

      I ~thought~ I had replaced the stabilizers already, but it looked like they were pretty old. I changed them and leveled everything. This seemed to help a little, but I still have a significant bounce.

      In case some of you don't know what I mean by "bounce", the deck kind of shutters while moving up and down, twisting the deck shaft slightly like a spring.

      It does it on strike cycle too, but they all do and I'm not too worried about that. I know what causes that - The deck changing speeds from the lowering link to the restricted drop link.

      Here's what I have checked so far:

      All bearings associated with deck lowering mechanisim - replaced

      Lowering link - adjusted

      Holding hook - adjusted

      Rake spring tube - replaced, and thouroughly lubed

      Stabilizer arms - replaced

      Asked for help!! - Bowl Tech

      Just a quick thought... The machine next (19) to this one sets pins really smooth. The only difference in the 2 is that 19 has an A-2 style MD/Scissors cam, thereby making the moving deck shift much more gently while 20 (the problem lane) has the old A style cam and shifts much more violently. Could this be the culprit? All machines running JB speed.

      Any Ideas?

      Adam D.

      [ April 12, 2001: Message edited by: BrunsAce ]
      <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bouncing Deck

        Adam, The MD cams are the same from A to A2. The deck might shift hard because of the MD rollers, or the cam follower bearing is bad. Usually if the deck jerks like that there is a woodruff key that is probably bad in the 1:1 or the 2:1. Roscoe and JBEES know the degress to cycle the mach to to check for excessive play. P. S. the cams look different because of the 90 degree overtravel for the A machine. But the MD siccors cam has the same shape. Anyway watch the gears in the detector they might look like they are jumping or skipping teeth. Tried to think of everything but as you know these things will throw you lots of curves!!! William

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        • #5
          Re: Bouncing Deck

          A couple thoughts:

          Are the deck lift shafts of similar vintage? Some of my machines have a little "springiness" in them, the machine looks a little jerky, but operationally is OK.

          Are you sure the spring in the new tube was good to start with, and the correct one??? By correct, I mean that the spring in a single-tube machine was designed with thicker coils. If you had a spare tube with a spring from a double tube machine, it may not be strong enough to provide proper dampening. Someone else may be able to tell you an easy way to check the spring, but if you stand it up next to one of the double tube springs, the difference is obvious.

          You may want to look at the deck height/level when setting pins ... I have machines that look a touch jerky, but set fine ... maybe that's where the problem is with your spotting.

          William: FYI, the MD/scissor cam on an A machine IS different from an A2, the transitions from high to low dwell were made more gradual to accommodate the higher speeds, an "A" MD cam makes the the deck shift MUCH harder when run at jetback speed.

          Kevin

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          • #6
            Re: Bouncing Deck

            Kevin, That makes sense, I stand corrected lol!! Thanks for letting me Know Kevin. William

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bouncing Deck

              Shafts in both machines are original as far as I know. The spring is the correct one, I fairly certain. I have another new one so I will double check to make sure.

              Deck setting height is 15/16".

              I'll let y'all know bout the spring tomorrow.
              <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bouncing Deck

                Deck problems, deck problems, deck problems... Tis the season... I've had 8 down for over a month now (month and 2 weeks???) Waiting on parts. More specifically, waiting on boss to "clean" moving deck, took to his shop 3 weeks ago to steam it... He left town yesterday (Thurs) for the weekend..... So, naturally, today I get a call, 4 keeps 180'ing... Try to walk them through it over the phone, no luck.. I go in. Nope, not something simple, it's not even setting pins on the set-pins cycle.... WTF??? MD cable's fine... all intact there. Suddenly moving deck rolls forward... Nope, not s'posed to do ~that~... Torsion spring broke. Yippee... I need 10 lanes tonight... So I pull some strings and get 8's moving deck back (and cleaned... suprise suprise... still wet when I got it back here...) throw it together as fast as I can, and get 8 running... or try to. I'm just rolling it into the pindeck, when 9 &amp; 10 pop on... Make-up game, hour and a half before league... 8 lanes to choose from... I yell from in the deck "Anywhere but ~THERE~!!!" They start giving me guff about wanting to bowl there, I proceed to tell 'em if they throw one ball on 9 I will personally ~kill~ everyone in the building! They moved to 11 &amp; 12... Get it in place, realize moving deck does ~not~ feel right at all, determine I must be off on the torsion spring... Spent the next 2 hours re-winding that @#%!!^ thing alone, on the machine, during league (9 ~is~ going by now...) Boss's team was gone, and my team stepped out for the night, so we had enough lanes for the rest... But in @#%!^ with the geneva's and torsion spring, I got that little $@^#&amp;^&amp;% cable cover bent a bit (what a POS that thing is, really... I got it running again, but it binds just after setting pins, and the deck bangs around a bit as a result. Not my biggest problem right now, I've still got all the adjusting and tweaking to do tomorrow... A screwdriver and hammer will take care of that little issue, I'm sure [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

                I only mention here because of the unstable deck issue, but I'm pretty sure yours is bouncing up and down, not forward and back... Well, and I needed to vent a bit, too [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] And just think... once this one's done, I get to do it again, 4 lanes over! Anyone ever attempted to change a MD torsion spring on the machine??? Wish me luck! (I'm not wanting to pull ~that~ deck out, because I know @#%% well I'll ~NEVER~ get the parts I need to put ~it~ together correctly... Yup, dern glad Friday the 13th is finally over with...

                Good news is I finally got our blacklights today... Just in time for season's end, I hope they can bring some extra interest here... They ~really~ kick ***... :p
                Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bouncing Deck

                  WOW!!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] I can't beat that!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

                  My deck probs are more of an annoyance comared to yours!!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

                  Anyway..I changed the spring today (again)
                  It did have the right one, but I put a new one in anyway. The condition is still the same though..(bouncy)

                  Any more ideas?

                  I'm about ready to give up on it, since it isn't really causing any real problems, other than inconsistant spotting. Our lane certification group is pretty good about cutting me some slack, so it'll probably get by.
                  <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bouncing Deck

                    Any possibility of a problem with the scotch yoke (Was that A2? Don't remember...) That or the deckshaft pin? I'd imagine if the pin was scored enough, or the bearings sticking, that might cause some rough operation there... A thought, anyway.

                    Always could change the oil easily enough... and see if any chunks fall out.... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif[/img]
                    Oldsmagnet -- Sidney MT

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bouncing Deck

                      These have the lowering link..Bearings are new...

                      Haven't even thought about the oil...
                      I'll try that.. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                      <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bouncing Deck

                        You might check your eccentric ring adjustment. on first ball strike cycle the deck should be about 8-1/2" from the pin deck at 90 degrees. then you will need to check the detector rod adjustment. If deck is going down too far on strike cycle this will cause deck to wobble on the way down. The transition from the short stroke hook to the long link should be smooth.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bouncing Deck

                          Thanks Larry..I kinda thought that looked screwey, but they all do it, and have done it since I started here. I have been re-building decks, and making all adjustments as I go. This one's re-built, and it really annoys me to have it looking like new, but not working that way if ya know what I mean.

                          This one is as close as I can get it. I can't adjust the eccentric ring any closer to spec (crowned moving deck on the 9 pin) or else it'd detect a srike on a 9 pin leave.

                          The strike/1st ball cycle isn't really the problem anyway, though that has always annoyed me too. It is the spot new pins cycle where it's giving me the real headaches though. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

                          Thanks for the info. I'll keep it in mind. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                          <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bouncing Deck

                            Kevin
                            Set your deck at 270 setting new pins and check the deck shaft from the pit side and front side for a crack. Look very carefully as they may be very hard to see depending on your lighting. Suggest you look about the area of the oil pan at its lip.
                            Bud

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bouncing Deck

                              Kevin
                              Set your deck at 270 setting new pins and check the deck shaft from the pit side and front side for a crack. Look very carefully as they may be very hard to see depending on your lighting. Suggest you look about the area of the oil pan at its lip.
                              Bud

                              Comment

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