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Sticking Spoons


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  • Sticking Spoons

    I have a machine on which the spoons sometines don't like to close after the turret drops the pins. I rebuilt this turret because of that, but it still seems to do it on occasion. I have checked for binds in all the linkages, and bearings, but all seem free. I've checked that none of the bolts in the spoons are contacting the turres frame, also that the spring and cam are in good condition. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

    I saw it happen one day. The turret dropped the pins and indexed, but the spoons diddn't close. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

    I have it "quick fixed" for now by attaching a spring from one of the spoons to a turret wire, but I'd like to fix it correctly since another machine is just starting to do it.

    Any help GREATLY appreciated. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

    Adam D.

    [ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: BrunsAce ]
    <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

  • #2
    Re: Sticking Spoons


    Have you checked for bind in / or bust flanged bearings at the Spider Release Lever / Spider Latch ? Also you may have a Pin Release Lever that is bent enough to cause problems of striking the pin in the center chute preventing the Spider from relocking occassionally , but isn't bent enough for the pin to slip through the center chute preventing the other nine pins from being released to the deck. You can check to see if the Pin Release Lever is striking the pin in the center chute by releasing pins to the deck and opening the Pin Release/ Spider Latch and push the Release Lever down toward the pin in the center chute , if the lever contacts the pin it is bent to a point were it can be troublesome. Also check the bearing and stop on the Spider Release lever as well.

    Good luck ...


    • #3
      Re: Sticking Spoons

      With my experience I have seen 3 possible causes to your problem.

      Cause 1: The cam follower 11-480001-000 bearing locks up

      Cause 2: The pin release lever 12-150049-000 get bent down from years of wear can be bent up with a bar. Observe the turret with the chute holding a pin if the head of the pin is down in the chute completely then it will cause the 5 pin to be improperly delivered to the deck chute.

      Cause 3: The 5pin could be sticking on the deck chute holding your pin release lever open. Keeping the spoons from locking.

      These are the 3 major problems that I have experienced.

      Hope this helps.



      • #4
        Re: Sticking Spoons

        on the same note as the spider release lever. have you adjusted your dech height on this machine recently? i had that happen to me one time. just a thought. good luck

        Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
        Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
        Cloth: ShamWow!
        Machine: Johnny 5
        Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper


        • #5
          Re: Sticking Spoons

          Well.. I checked the above with no luck. Even if i hold the pin release lever down, it dosn't do what it's been doing.

          What it does is, when the turret releases the pins, the turret AND the spoons seem to index together, instead of the spoons remaining stationary for a moment while the turret indexes. Something is binding, but not all of the time.

          Spider release lever has new bearings, and is free. Pin release lever is OK. Interlock probe is new, and free. All seems free when I check it, but there is obviously something I'm missing.

          Any other ideas?

          Adam D.

          [ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: BrunsAce ]
          <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>


          • #6
            Re: Sticking Spoons

            Have you pulled the turret ring apart? It sounds like the bearings are binding. Could be "gunk" (technical term) in the bearings. Or could be a bearing with a flat spot. Have fun looking at all 149 of them.

            Happy hunting, billman

            [ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: billman ]
            let me be myself


            • #7
              Re: Sticking Spoons

              Tend to agree with billman on this, however there should be 149 3/8" balls in assembly.
              It actually winds up with a space of a little less than one ball in both raceways.


              • #8
                Re: Sticking Spoons

                Are we miss reading this question he states that he had rebuilt the turriet. If so then it shouldn't be binding in the bearings.
                We agree with Roscoe that they are 149 bearings (67 inner ring 82 on the outer ring) because whin I first started I took that ring appart not knowing the proper procedure for disasembly and lost all 149 bearings in the machine. It was a learning experience.
                note: these bearings are hard to find in a bowling machine when you are young and can see good but know that Im older they would be harder to find.

                Doug [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

                [ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: Senior Mechanic ]


                • #9
                  Re: Sticking Spoons


                  Have you checked the turret spider adjustment? Does the spider release lever bearing resist spinning in low dwell of cam ? What about the condition of your turret bumper ?


                  • #10
                    Re: Sticking Spoons

                    I would pull the turret ring apart. I recently had a pair of bearing rings(12-150037 &amp; 12-150038) that had indentations worn into them by the bearings. The thing was DRY and full of rust. I'm surprised it worked at all.


                    • #11
                      Re: Sticking Spoons

                      Hey Sr. Mech...Been There, done that..Aint it a real #$%&amp;@!!!

                      When I rebuilt this turret, I insprcted the bearing races for wear, but I diddn't inspect each bearing only a few. I suppose I can tear it down again and check them all. I'll probably do this sometime next week, as the machine in questoin is currently in use.

                      I'll keep ya posted as too what I find then.

                      [ June 27, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]
                      <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>


                      • #12
                        Re: Sticking Spoons

                        I can think of a few things you may want to check out if you haven't already done so. Check your turret level, I have had to raise the turret after having this problem on one machine in the past, the 5 pin would go through and buonce back up just enough that it would release the pins but not lock back. The second thing I would check is the 5 pin chute itself and make sure you don't have an indentation where the 5 pin hits that won't allow it to slide down and clear the pin release lever.


                        David Bolt
                        Champaign, IL
                        USBC Silver Coach
                        IBPSIA BOD
                        IBPSIA Advanced
                        Technical Certified
                        Pro Shops


                        • #13
                          Re: Sticking Spoons


                          One last thing to look at, if you have an older machine.

                          Our turrets have the original spoons, that use 2 additonal plates underneath them for support.

                          Occasionally, I will find one of the spoons "dragging" the bottom of one or two turret wires. Not all turret wires are the "proper" shape or dimensions.

                          I have tried changing the turret wire, removing one of the support plates from under the spoon, and replacing the spoon with the newer thicker spoons that dont need the extra support plates.

                          Usually one of the above "fixes" will do the trick.

                          Good luck,


                          • #14
                            Re: Sticking Spoons

                            I had same problem two weeks ago. The tops of the five pin were hitting the bottom of pin release lever. I just cut about 1/4" off of the pin release lever. Haven't had any trouble with it sense. "good luck"


                            • #15
                              Re: Sticking Spoons

                              I also had to cut about a 1/4 off the pin release levers at our 24 lane center . The reason why they were cut was because there are to different types of pin release levers the old style which is longer and made for the old cast turret indexing cams and the new style pin release lever shorter in length for the new style indexing cam. In my situation there were old style pin release levers install with the new indexing cams which caused problems with the levers striking the 5 pin . So instead of purchasing new style levers to cure this problem I removed them cut off a 1/4 inch which makes them the same length as the new style.


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