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  • Machine not seting pins

    I have a Model A machine that will not set any pins down. The mechanic is lost, he says the machine will not tell it self that their are no pins on deck. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] I have only had center for a few years and dont know that much about the machines. Any help would be great

  • #2
    Re: Machine not seting pins

    There are many things that can cause this to happen and we could sit here and tell you many different things to check. Without more info...it will be hard to nail down. The first thing to check is if the strike controller is falling into the low of the selector cam at 90 degrees at either strike height (8-8 1/2 inches) or with the deck on the deck holding hook. If this is happening, then notice if the strike selector is being urged upwards at the same time. In theory, these two things happen at the same time. If they aren't happening, this could be due to a bind in the controller, the selector, the strike cam follower or a combination of either. And of course, this assumes the detector disc is in the right position to allow the controller to follow the low of the selector cam. There is a roller on the strike cam folloer, this roller may not be lifting the strike cam follower enough to allow the strike selector to move, thus freezing the selector and controller in place. Next, the strike cam follower is pinned to the D shaft. If the pin is broken, this could cause the problem. The 180 stop selector is also a part of the strike cam follower and attached to it is the pin detector link. If the pin detector link is binding on the cycle cams or somewhere else along its length, this would restrict the movement of the strike cam follower, thus not allowing the D shaft to rotate, and the machine wouldn't set pins. Also on the D shaft is the Moving Deck-Scissor selector. This is tied to the Moving Deck-Scissor latch and if the pivot point is bound up, again this would restrict the movement of the D shaft. If the Scissor Cam follower roller bearing was worn, it would allow the scissor cam to sag too low and again restrict the movement of the moving deck-scissor latch and result in the same symptom. Now all of this is assuming that the detector rod is adjusted properly. If it isn't, you will never get to first base with all of this info...I could quote all of the adjustment for the detector rod...but in your service manual on page 3-2 is the complete adjustment and it should be followed verbatim. The very first step is a NOTE about the pins in the detector rod...be sure they are correct. Any questions...call me 602-249-1715...ask for Steve
    TSM & TSM Training Development
    Main Event Entertainment
    480-620-6758 for help or information

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Machine not seting pins

      I'm an AMF'er but I read this forum every now and then just to see what kinds of problems Brunswick machines have. Boy does this one sound complicated. To have to check all of those things just because the machine won't set pins. If an AMF machine won't spot pins, there's only two things to check, a switch and a relay. I have seen Brunswick machines run, and it looks really neat, but I wouldn't want to work on one.
      Give me a hammer and some duct tape and I can fix it!

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      • #4
        Re: Machine not seting pins

        Kevin:

        As steve suggested, I'd check the detector rod adjustment, and the condition of the roll pins that contact the stop bracket:

        Beyond that, it becomes more of what the machine is/isn't doing at certain times in the cycle, best solved interactively over the phone, you could also call me at 845 794 5561 between 1 and 5 eastern, I'll help if I can:

        Kevin

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        • #5
          Re: Machine not seting pins

          Contact Roscoe at Midwest pinsetter service. He is based in Kansas

          billman
          let me be myself

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          • #6
            Re: Machine not seting pins

            This might sound simple but does your center have shadow bowling or did it used to have shadow bowling??
            They used to have a rod installed that came near the out of range lever.
            You pushed it forward to put the machine in shadow bowl so it would not set any pins.
            A little lever would block the strike cam follower that was listed in an earlier post.
            I have seen some centers that just dis-connected the rod and left the lever in the detector.
            The lever would vibrate itself forward and block the strike cam follower not allowing any new pins to be set.
            Another thing to check is there any pins standing on the pin deck??
            If the deck holding hook is out of adjustment and the deck goes down on second ball it will detect pins even though it is on second ball and reset the pins standing.
            Has anybody worked on this machine lately??
            If the detector gets a tooth or so out of time it will not allow the strike cam follower to drop.
            Does the deck go all the way to the floor to try and set new pins or does it go to re-spotting height??
            If it goes all the way to the floor you could have a bind in your moving deck.
            See if the deck shifts all the way back when it goes to the floor.
            IF NOT you could have a mis-adjusted flag(moving deck-scissor latch)or the bolt the holds the flag could have come loose allowing free play.(check if the scissors are closing and opening when the deck goes to the floor)
            Someone said check the detector rod adjustment.
            This is a GREAT starting point.
            But also look at your detector rod when the deck is all the down at 270 degrees.
            There are 2 roll pins going through the detector rod.
            There is also a bracket mounted to the gearbox.
            The roll pins MUST be aligned straight so they lock against the notches in the bracket.
            Look to make sure the dector rod has both roll pins and they are facing from 7 pin to 10 pin.I hope this helps
            Graham
            I have had a few drinks so I thought I would add this tip.
            I found the best way to adjust a detector rod is by SOUND.
            Have NO pins on the pin deck.
            Put the machine at 90 degrees first ball.
            Raise the detector rod to throw it out of adjustment.
            Then repeat process and at 90 degrees first ball with no pins SLOWLY lower the detector rod and you will hear a CLICK when the the cam follower drops in the low dwell of the cam.
            Lock the stop collar on the detector rod when you hear the click.
            Do this with no lanes running and you will know what to listen for

            [ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: GRAMBO ]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Machine not seting pins

              OK All these guys gave you some good places to look, but I am going to assume that the machine was working ok and all of a sudden it doesn't set pins. I look to the easy stuff first. If you had a deck jam, the long curved link under the turret may have gotten bent and isn't long enough to latch when the 5 pin indexes... OR... If the turret has gotten out of level (too high in the front) the full deck signal may be getting cancelled when the deck goes down for first detection. another thing is that the little cam on the turret indexing cam is not mating up with the roller properly. Sometimes a pin under the turret will bend the bellcrank and the roller doesn't match up to the cam properly. good luck.
              41 years and still learning....
              lanedoctor@hotmail.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Machine not seting pins

                Quote:]Originally posted by 8270 pinspotter:
                I'm an AMF'er but I read this forum every now and then just to see what kinds of problems Brunswick machines have. Boy does this one sound complicated.[/QUOTE]

                The whole damn machine looks complicated, judging from the service manual.

                Quote:]To have to check all of those things just because the machine won't set pins. If an AMF machine won't spot pins, there's only two things to check, a switch and a relay.[/QUOTE]

                I seem to remember phantom racks on an 82-70 being a wee bit more complicated than that.

                Quote:]I have seen Brunswick machines run, and it looks really neat, but I wouldn't want to work on one.[/QUOTE]

                I don't really think it's such a hot idea to start another flame war between Brunswick and AMF types... doncha know there's a war on?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Machine not seting pins

                  Oh boy...here we go again...wait a second while I get my hard hat on...lol
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Machine not seting pins

                    Don't worry guy's...Chad has to behave ...he's representing "V" now. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                    Charlie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                    Please buy MADE IN USA!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Machine not seting pins

                      I totally agree with lanedoctor. If your pinsetter was working fine before then look for something simple first. Your problem is a common one with my machines especially after changing gear box oil. Did you do that recently, or put in an oil pan. What happens is that if you don't put the oil pan back correctly it will hang up on the 180 link and cause a full deck signal all the time, and will not spot pins because the deck will think its full already. Check it.

                      Sal

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                      • #12
                        Re: Machine not seting pins

                        P.S.

                        If your full deck latch is bent and not locking you will have blackouts because the deck thinks its empty. Are you having blackouts? Also if its unlatching on a strike this will cause blackouts also because once again the deck will think its empty.

                        Sal

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Machine not seting pins

                          Mok

                          Actually 82-70 is correct, the only other thing that would keep a 70 from not spotting pins is if the Porter gets stuck under the table. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Machine not seting pins

                            Quote:]Originally posted by SmittyT:
                            Actually 82-70 is correct, the only other thing that would keep a 70 from not spotting pins is if the Porter gets stuck under the table.[/QUOTE]

                            I submit for your consideration:


                            Phantom Rack thread

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Machine not seting pins

                              What exactlly is the stop,is it not setting a rack of pins(i.e. staying on second ball and deck not shifting)...or is the pinsetter just stopping at 180 with the deck full of pins.If it is at 180 with deck full,check to verify if it has a signal from turret(long link in its rearward locked postion)if it is locked then check your 180 link adjustment and your clutch lever bearing on your clutch to make sure it is not binding up.Make sure your oil drip pan is clear of the 180 linkage.

                              If still not sure,I agree with Kevin a inter-active phone call would put you on the right track.

                              Hope this helps,
                              Peanut
                              Peanut

                              Comment

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