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  • No Tap Problem

    Several pairs in my house have a No-Tap problem. When the bowler knocks down 9 pins, the deck comes down and I see (and hear) the pinsetter click over to ball two so as to lock out the scissors, but soon after than it switches back over to ball one and picks the one pin up and re-spots it. Scoring works fine. The bowler just has to hit the reset button on the ball return. Ive scratched my head for a while on this one.

    Any ideas?
    Space is the Place!

  • #2
    Re: No Tap Problem

    Planet-Rob:
    Check the shiney lever from the second ball shaft,to the shiney brass thing marty puts on the detector- all BS in my opinion, however in all seriousness, even though the second ball, foul solonoid clicks, that does not ensure that the strike controller is in fact being lifted in order to allow the strike cam follower to go to low dwell.
    90 percent of the time the foul modification link is not connected at the bottom,( where the old wire overtravel link hooked up).
    Martin.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: No Tap Problem

      Thanks for your response Marton. Im new to this forum and relatively new to pinsetters. Ive had less than two years on converts and Japanese A2s and the training I did recieve was pretty shallow.

      One might use the "Shiny levers and Brass things" slang a bit with me while I absorb the nomenclature. If I may ask....could you expand on the setup your describing?? I have no manuals other than a light one on as-90 scoring.

      Thanks in advance......rob
      Space is the Place!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: No Tap Problem

        The situation with the Rake sweeping away is usually one of two things; either the rake sweep hook is to high to begin with or the the link between the sweep hook and bellcrank is worn (or the roll pins). The problem with the the pinsetter not engaging when trying to pull the OOR lever is usually the cause of worn parts between the bellcrank and the sweep hook. Can be corrected by replacing the link and he two roll pins and making an adjustment to the sweep hook (5/16 above the block at 45 degrees).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: No Tap Problem

          Rob:

          Two possibilities:

          The "shiny thing" a.k.a cycle link, part 21, page 5a of the scorer parts book, has been dislodged from its home in the intermediate lever (gb205,page 15, A/P service parts manual) ... grab it and try to move it towards the approach, and towards the rear of the machine. If it doesn't move, then ...

          The take data switch is adjusted too far back, the solenoid clicks, but too late, because the machine has already started a standing pins cycle.

          I cheat a little bit on my take data switch adjustment, cycle machine through until the rake sweep hook just clicks in to sweep dead wood, stop machine, and put the second lobe of the cam so that the switch actuates when the hook clicks in (hook engages at 135, but it helps the scoring on first ball, deck's not in the way), and should be sufficient time for the solenoid to do its job.

          Sometimes, on PITA machines, you may have to advance the take data switch a little further ... best test is to have someone throw balls and foul, foul cycle is the same as no-tap, and easy to make happen:

          Hope this helps:

          Kevin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: No Tap Problem

            Have you guys figured out a way to connect the little shinny lever thing any easier? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

            Charlie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

            [ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Fox ]
            Please buy MADE IN USA!

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            • #7
              Re: No Tap Problem

              Hi all.....long time since this post...I am still having problems with no tap. NPS still clicks but pin gets picked up and sets to ball 2. Tried moving the cam on the scoring cluster foward as directed above....but didnt fix problem and made scoring take a nose dive. Could I solicit more ideas?

              Thanks in advance to all....rob
              Space is the Place!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: No Tap Problem

                Check out the operation of your cycle link and cycle crank. The cycle link maybe disconnected at the 90 degree overtravel hood and the pin attached to the flange on the crank maybe bent to a point that it does not engage the strike selector.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: No Tap Problem

                  Originally posted by planet_rob:
                  Thanks for your response Marton. Im new to this forum and relatively new to pinsetters. Ive had less than two years on converts and Japanese A2s and the training I did recieve was pretty shallow.
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rob,

                  Do you have both types of machines in the center? If so, the cycle link for the Jap machines is different than the link for the converted machines. Check the location of the oval hole in the link. There is about an 1/8" difference.

                  Ken

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: No Tap Problem

                    I've had to troubleshoot this problem as well, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this. Check to see if your "D" link has become disconnected. If so, even though your NPS is going its job, the pinsetter will have no clue that it's supposed to be in 2nd ball and will therefore continue with its normal cycle. The "D" shaft isn't that hard to reconnect. Grab a flashlight and follow it down from the top, and you will se a little pin sticking out. The reconnection isn't that hard...just a little tricky. The way it's connected is that there is a little metal flap that goes over the hole in the "D" shaft to try to get the shaft to stay on the pin. You have to use the pin to open up the flap and then slip the hole in the "D" shaft over the pin. You should be able to feel it lock into place. Once you have done this, then try to see if your foul and no-tap cycles work (I normally check both just to be safe as a foul cycle can come before a no-tap). If the foul works, but the no-tap isn't...then most definately adjust your cam timing as it is too late.

                    I hope this helps, and if I am just restating something that someone has already said...oops
                    Become an organ donor...you never know who's life you are going to save.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: No Tap Problem

                      I think that the one thing that no one has hit upon is that if you know that the "shiny metal strap" and the "brass" bellcrank are hooked up correctly, the NPS is working, and the link to the standing pins controller is right, the next place to check is the roller on the hook selector. I went thru the exact same problems, only to find that the roller was gone on that part. When I replaced the roller on the hook selector, lo and behold-- the NPS actually locked out the standing pins cycle! Hope that this helps.
                      Mick
                      The long term cost of inaction is greater than the percieved short term convenience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: No Tap Problem

                        Ok! Cool. Lots of info. Im gonna dive right in now. One thing regarding the last post by plamor....Ive had to re-adjust the hook selector three or four times in the last couple of months as everynow and then the wrong lowering apperatus grabs the deck and pins are spotted at the detecting height. So maybe....??

                        Thanks again for the info guys...
                        ...rob
                        Space is the Place!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: No Tap Problem

                          Planet:
                          If you are spotting pins from the short hook, replace the 12-100183, deck hook selector lever.
                          Or resurface it on a belt sander to achieve a sharp edge on the top, then readjust.
                          Roscoe.
                          rfm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: No Tap Problem

                            Roscoe you old coot. Had to say that. Dont know why. Thanks. Filed the 1/8" difference away and no more dropping of pins. Thanks again....rob
                            Space is the Place!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: No Tap Problem

                              ..."90 percent of the time the foul modification link is not connected at the bottom,( where the old wire overtravel link hooked up).
                              Martin....."

                              I finally figured out what the Hell that meant! HA
                              Found 7 pinsetters with that link not connected. No tap problem gone! Thanks!

                              ...rob
                              Space is the Place!

                              Comment

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