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Zapped Jap Pinsetter

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  • Zapped Jap Pinsetter

    Pinsetter 5 of a line of 16 Japanese A-2s decided to quit running a few days ago. Absolutely refused to turn on... no jams anywhere but machine would not power up.
    Being overpowered by my "day job" I had in-training mechanic verify that J-24 was closing. He said the contacts would close but machine would not power up. I advised to change out J-100... he did... and that's when we got this can of electrical worms.
    Pinsetter would blow fuse every time J-24 engaged. New "J-100" would close for an instant and then fuse would go south. When I finally got to the machine I ran continuity checks on relays and verified the new "J-100" was bad. That's when I learned that the new "J-100" was really a new J-24. Scratch one J-24.
    After wiring in a real J-100 the machine came on but now refuses to go off except at the panel circuit breaker. As I have stated in previous posts, what I know about electricity would fill a very small book but I have picked up on a few things through this forum.
    Here's what I have done about this new problem. The single pole switches at the rear of the electrical channel have been tested for proper operation (ohm meter says continuity in "on" position and no continuity in "off" position); both J-24 and J-100 checked for continuity across 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, and 13 and 14. Everything is okay. Since I know to check the coil on a suspect magnetic clutch I thought "what the heck" and checked resistance across the coil of the relays (99+ on both, less than 5 on a bad one. Is this a valid test?
    Anyway, pinsetter runs when powered up by breaker and mechanic's switch at rear of channel. It will not power up any other way... not even Frameworx override. However it won't turn off via any toggle switch or jam switch. Regardless of how many times the switches are toggled (rear manager's, rear mechanic's, mask unit switch, front counter, or frameworx) the only way to power down is via the panel circuit breaker or pulling the power plug. The J-24 once engaged, stays engaged, until all power is shut off.
    If it helps the troubleshooting, this pinsetter reads no voltage (when running) at the cannon plug for the accelerator (therefore the accelerator will not turn on, just the pinsetter) and the first and second ball lights are not working (no power to them either).
    Additional items... we have replaced J-24, J-100, time delay module, and fuse holder. That only leaves the transformer (it gets replaced tomorrow) and the panel box itself. We have tested all switches, including jam switches and all check fine.
    A look at the schematic for the Jap A-2s indicate all switches are wired in series so a bad one would not necessarily lock the J-24 down, or would it? Seems the only place for a "cross over" to bypass jam switches and keep the pinsetter on continuously would be a shorted transformer or am I on the wrong track and just replacing a good part with a newer part?
    Your input would be greatly appreciated.

    Edit note: During my troubleshooting of Pinsetter 5, I found a 26V reading from the low voltage strip to ground. After disconnecting the three prong manager's plug, the "leak" went away but the problem detailed above stayed. KL Kevin taught me about a year ago how to run down the "Bank 8" problem so I'll do that as soon as I get 5 under control.

    [ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Roger Frazier ]

  • #2
    Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

    ROGER
    it sounds like there is a wire in the wrong place
    or one shorted across another [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] CRUD
    if things aren't going right just use a bigger hammer! DIRT

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

      I would agree that rechecking the correct wiring would be done first,check it against another pinsetter.Just to be sure I know I have misplaced wires alot in my haste.

      I also would like to share a check that I always make when I go into a center. I go to each pinsetter as it is running and remove the transformer bridge fuse(the 1amp slow blow,or 2amp on Japs)and make sure that the pinsetter cuts off.I have found on many pinsetters (non 115v)that when the bridge fuse blows the pinsetter keeps on running,this can burn up transformer,it also can sends 60vac thur motor start circuit.The reason the pinsetter doesn't cut off is that some pinsetters are wired in a way that the pinlight,retifier,motor create a backfeed (when the fuse blows).
      I done away with the chance of this by wiring the rectifier parallel with the motor contactor coil(move the rectifier wire from the motor contact and reconnect in on the motor contactor coil along with the wire going to the motor start relay points).

      Hope this makes sense,
      Peanut
      Peanut

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

        Peanut:
        Thanks for the tip... I tried it and machine will turn off regardless of which fuse is disconnected. That was fun... watching the fuse spring off the top of the electrical panel and go into the deck... got both of them off the deck though.
        Pinsetter 5 will still run continuously with no output to accelerator and no first and second ball lights. The only way to shut it down is panel breaker or either of two fuses. Since jam switches don't stop pinsetter I really don't want to expose the machine to open bowlers or league bowlers who are conditioned to hit the reset. I hate changing 4-1 if you know what I mean.
        Sorry but I didn't follow the backfeed senario (I'm not an electrician but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express). Are you recommending moving wire #49 from J-100 to connection point on J-24 at terminal #4?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

          If you move wire #49 to terminal 4 on RL2 (J-24), you will be connecting into the 24 Volt side of the transformer. But you are on the right track. Attach the wire to terminal 2 on the same contactor to obtain what Masternut was trying to tell you. As far as your other problem goes...I would look at wire 12 and 16 and be sure they are going to the same side of the coil of the contactor and that wire 16 is looping up to terminal 3. Re-check the other wires on the same contactor by checking a machine next to it and be sure each wire is going to the same place as on the other machine.

          One question to ask yourself is when you try to turn the machine off, does RL2 (J-24) change state and the machine still stays on or does the relay not change state causing the machine to stay on. You may have RL-3 (J-100) wired wrong causing the coil to receive voltage even though RL2 (J-24) has changed state and released its contacts. I doubt this is the problem due to you stating that you have no 1st 2nd ball light and no voltage to the accelerator. This leads me to believe the problem is in the wiring of RL-2 (J-24). Do you have a wiring diagram and/or schematic for the Japanese machine? If not, let me know and I can get one to you. Good luck...
          TSM & TSM Training Development
          Main Event Entertainment
          480-620-6758 for help or information

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

            Roger I wouldn't make any modifications to the electrical box until it is running properly.

            I agree with Steve on the next steps to check....
            As far as the pinsetter not cutting off,which contactors is not de energizing the motor start J24v or the motor contactor J200v if the 24 volt relay is not de energizing look closely at wires.

            Since you have no accelerator output or 1st or 2nd ball lights I believe that the J24 is working properly and that the motor contactor is the problem. With the pinsetter turn off by rear switches measure the voltage at the J200v coil and see if 110v is present. (you can look at the contavctor and see if it is engaged or not).

            Let us no your findings....
            Peanut

            [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: masternut ]
            Peanut

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

              Hey i had the same problem on a certain lane and what the problem was one of the cables up front for the scorers was bad was causing the lane not to come on at the desk that is if you have as-90 scores the cable im talking about in at the desk control if you dont have the switches hooked up at the desk no more hope that helps. Bob
              http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...WheelinBob.jpg

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              • #8
                Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

                Your trouble seems to be with wiring of J100V and J24V isn't energizing if the 1st and 2nd ball light and Accelerator has no 24vac feed. I suggest that you compare the wiring of J100v on that lane with the machine next to it and have a copy of the Japanese wiring schematics at hand .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

                  Robert,
                  Please feel free to call me Monday,and be glad to help talk thur this problem....

                  A cordless phone is great so to be on pinsetter.


                  Peanut
                  919.468.8684
                  919.244.4735
                  eastern time
                  Peanut

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

                    Daytime helper left me with a little egg on my chin over this one. I had double checked J-100 wiring but accepted assurance from in-training mechanic that J-24 was wired correct... he double checked it... yeah!
                    JBEES put me on the right wire, so to speak, as I checked J-24 myself the other evening before the center opened for bowling and found wire 12 on the wrong side of the coil. It had been inavertently switched with another wire resulting in the J-24 being "locked down" as soon as the rear manager's switch was closed.
                    Sorry to have troubled you all but I guess that was one of those brain f-rt days. One thing that did make it troublesome was my wiring diagram for Japanese pinsetters shows two wire #18, one a jumper on the J-24 between positions 1 and 5 and a second wire #18 from the coil to the 4-pin cannon plug serving
                    the front counter and manager's (control desk) switch. My pinsetters only have a three pin cannon for that use so I surmised that the second wire #18 had been discontinued after my electrical trouble shooting guide was printed.
                    That, of course, makes me wonder how accurate my guide really is...
                    Thanks for your help!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Zapped Jap Pinsetter

                      Opps! Double Posted this one! Sorry!

                      [ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Roger Frazier ]

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