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  • gearbox triggering problems

    i have been having a problem with the mechanical triggering . the problem started as a random recycle. i took the trigger linkage completely apart cleaned lubed and adjusted. when i was taking the bolts out of the bracket that holds the soleonid the left bolt was broken off in the gear box.after reassembly everything seemed to work fine .i just left that bolt out . but now about 5 times during league after bowler throws ball the rake drops and the machine does not cycle. i sat and watched during bowling and the solenoid operates but does not move the starter bellcrank. i noticed that the bracket that holds the solenoid was tilted foreward but im not sure if this has any influence on my problem. does anyone know how to fix the broken bolt problem or any other tips to try. any help would be greatly appreciated. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

  • #2
    Re: gearbox triggering problems

    Yeah, everytime it moves forward the plunger will be at a slight angle and not go up. I don't know of any quick fixes other than drilling and tapping it out. You might try and find a left handed drill bit and backing it out that way.

    Drill
    Drill

    David Bolt
    Champaign, IL
    USBC Silver Coach
    IBPSIA BOD
    IBPSIA Advanced
    Technical Certified
    Pro Shops

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    • #3
      Re: gearbox triggering problems

      i've had good luck with tapping the studs, that the linkage sits on, with a 3/8-16 tap then drill the holes larger on the solenoid stand with a 3/8" bit then bolt it on. haven't had a problem with any of the machines that i've done this to. and it's a permanent repair [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

      alex
      Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
      Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
      Cloth: ShamWow!
      Machine: Johnny 5
      Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper

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      • #4
        Re: gearbox triggering problems

        I agree with Eric, a most permanent repair... two things to add:

        -some of the studs may have a smaller inside diameter, and would then need to be drilled and tapped to 5/16.
        - after reassembly, be sure that the stud is longer than the combination of the bellcrank and the spacer. or it may bind... filing the oilite in the bellcrank or grinding down the spacer will work...

        jeff

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        • #5
          Re: gearbox triggering problems

          dude id replace the bolt then make the right adj the solenoid shoind be square. if the prob happens the soeloied is bad dude if you need help call me 931 2982 i will help you IF you want to learn the machine J B

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          • #6
            Re: gearbox triggering problems

            Alex...I had quite a few lanes with the style fix you mentioned. Most of them had allowed the shaft to come loose in the gear box due to nothing to hold them in place anymore. I have since removed the shafts and drilled out the old bolt and installed a heli-coil. I have also begun removing the ones that are not loose yet and started to repair them. I feel that over time, that the constant shock of either the starter bellcrank being pulled on or the shock of the plunger lever slamming down will cause the remaining shafts to work loose also.

            jaysen...to solve your problem...first, do you have factory A-2's or converted machines. If you have factory A-2's, then the bolt you are speaking of is only a short bolt and a quick drilling will get the old bolt out and you can install a heli coil if you damaged the threads.
            If you have converted machines, then you are looking at the problem mentioned above. You will need to remove the shaft from the gear box. This can be accomplished in a variety of ways...but I prefer to tap the shaft to 3/8-16 as alex mentioned above, but not to hold the cover on. I use a slide hammer and thread a bolt into the hole you just tapped in the shaft and use the slide hammer to remove the shaft. It will come out, but not without some work. Take your time with this part. You don't want to damage the shaft...if you wish to reuse it that is. Once it is out, you can drill out the old bolt and install a heli-coil if need be. You can then replace the shaft back into the gear box. I apply some thread locker (red) to the end of the shaft that is going into the gear box to help it stay tight. You can then use the proper bolt to reinstall the cover plate and this will keep the shaft from working loose in the future. If you have any questions regarding this, give me a call...good luck

            602-249-1715
            TSM & TSM Training Development
            Main Event Entertainment
            480-620-6758 for help or information

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            • #7
              Re: gearbox triggering problems

              steve,
              great reply. i was always curious if the fix i was doing had any futue negative effects. i had always thought about starting a thread on it, but i guess i don't need to now. i have only one question about the heli-coils. are they stronger than threading into the housing? i've seen the at the"depot" and always thought that they were one of those "as seen on t.v." things. it still amazes me that brunswick would have you thread into the aluminum, especially something that needs to be tightened down as much as the solenoid stand.

              alex
              Conditioner: Pantene Pro-V Brunette Expressions with Color Enhancer
              Cleaner: Fabuloso Spring Fresh with Bleach Alternative
              Cloth: ShamWow!
              Machine: Johnny 5
              Surface: Melamine-impregnated, phenolic-treated, high pressure pressed craft paper

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: gearbox triggering problems

                Shamefoejze:
                Helicoils are not only an accecptable alternative for threads in alum., they are in fact, proscribed original installation procedures in the aircraft industry, when dealing with exotic materials. Many aircraft suppliers ,in fact use them instead of threading the original material, as they offer much greater holding power due to there inherant thread holding pattern. Indeed, if they had been available at the time, Brunswick would have probably incorperated them in this instance.
                Roscoe.
                rfm

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                • #9
                  Re: gearbox triggering problems

                  Shamefoweze:
                  An aside to this topic.
                  Never try to drill out the stud itself, if one wants to actually replace the bolt threads with a helicoil, use existing stud as a drill guide( be it a 5/16 or a 3/8 id), thus establishing a true center hole in the bolt that you want to drill out. Then proceed to drill out the bolt, with a guide bushing that fits both the id of the stud and the od of the drill,( usually 5/16, if using a 1/4 in helicoil). Most generally, the only time one finds a loose or broken stud, involve machines that previously had been model A's with a spring and rod triggering system.
                  As JEBEES says, the only correct way to remove a broken stud is to tap it, thread in the appropiate peice of all thread till it bottoms in the threads, then use a rod coupling nut with spacers and lots of 90 weight oil on threads. As the studs are a very tough, use great care in tapping, a new tap and a good tapping lubricant, are a cheap price to get the stud out. I have many machines running with just the stud tapped to hold the solonoid, probably in the hundreds, However I sometimes run across one that someone has tried to drill out the stud and ruined the hole- the only recourse in this suitation is to install a stud that has the inside hole tapered, (with four slots cut for expansion)use a 1/4 tamp- in slug at the taper, install with bolt and tighten. Provides a permanant fix while using correct bolt sizes.
                  Hope this helps :
                  Roscoe.
                  rfm

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                  • #10
                    Re: gearbox triggering problems

                    Quote:] . Indeed, if they had been available at the time, Brunswick would have probably incorperated them in this instance.
                    Roscoe.[/QUOTE]

                    Actually, knowing Brunswick, if they had been available at the time, Brunswick would have bought the company, renamed it, given every helicoil an eight digit part number, discontinued 1/2 of the line, and charged everone double...

                    [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
                    The long term cost of inaction is greater than the percieved short term convenience.

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                    • #11
                      Re: gearbox triggering problems

                      playmor,
                      we can do without the company bashing here.

                      thank you,
                      Jerrid
                      and then he said, "on your death bed, you will receive total consciousness" so I got that going for me...... which is nice!

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                      • #12
                        Re: gearbox triggering problems

                        Jerrid:

                        When Brunswick bought Quality, within a WEEK the price of quality's parts was the same as the price for the brunswick part.

                        Did the parts already made and in inventory become worth 40% more when the big "B" bought QBC ... I don't think so ...

                        Playmor was making a joke out of it, but the real joke was on us, the proprietors.

                        The consolidation in our industry SHOULD scare the hell out of people, as the centralization and one-source, one-mindset thinking that comes out of it, and the distinct lack of competition, will result in higher prices for products with progressively less and less thought put into them.

                        Stepping off of soapbox ... Kevin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: gearbox triggering problems

                          I realize that Kevin,
                          I am just enforcing the rules of the Bowltech forums. I know Playmor was probably just joking around but I don't want to see another AMF vs. Brunswick flame war on here.

                          Jerrid
                          and then he said, "on your death bed, you will receive total consciousness" so I got that going for me...... which is nice!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: gearbox triggering problems

                            Sorry to stir up so much controversy. In fact, the only machine that I have ever worked on is the Brunswick A2, and I love them. I was just pointing out Brunswick's tradition of liking a company so much, it buys it to make it its own. Thats all. No amf vs. B flaming here at all. We all know that both big b and big a have had their share of problems, that's all.

                            Thanks,
                            Mick
                            The long term cost of inaction is greater than the percieved short term convenience.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: gearbox triggering problems

                              No problem Mick

                              Thanks,
                              Jerrid
                              and then he said, "on your death bed, you will receive total consciousness" so I got that going for me...... which is nice!

                              Comment

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