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  • looses full deck signal

    Hello again and thanks for reading. We have 3 machines that intermittently loose the full deck signal. It does not happen all the time, just some of the time, so we just keep 19 pins in those machines. I have been reading in the trouble shooting section of the A-2 manual on the possible causes. With this happening intermittently, where would you suggest we look first? Many thanks.
    Howard

  • #2
    Re: looses full deck signal

    I had one lane do that and it seems to have been the long link was bent,i watched it from the underside(view from the rear with a flashlight).I saw the long link latch just fine BUT,the DROP LINK was rubbing against the long link so i replaced the long link and it must have been doing it for some time due to the rub marks on it.,drop link was tight in it's mount(best to check them now and then).It took a while to finally see it do it but was worth the effort.
    [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]
    Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

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    • #3
      Re: looses full deck signal

      Watch the latch as the machine detects strike. The roller on the deck lift shaft shouldn't hit the latch at this point (obviously, with a full deck).

      Other possibilities: Worn bushing/x-pin in front of long link, bent stud holding bellcrank at front of long link to turret frame.

      I'd look at the latch hitting first, then the x-pin and bushing ... also look at the bushing in the roller the cam hits, while you have it apart:

      Kevin

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      • #4
        Re: looses full deck signal

        I have seen the bolts on the turret cam back out so far that the cam would lower every once in awhile and go under the roller. If this was the case then it would double index past one of the pins as well.

        Drill
        Drill

        David Bolt
        Champaign, IL
        USBC Silver Coach
        IBPSIA BOD
        IBPSIA Advanced
        Technical Certified
        Pro Shops

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        • #5
          Re: looses full deck signal

          Howard:
          All good advise. I would also check the square peice of metal welded to the long link. There have been times when I find them very close to the edge of the blocking finger, or worn enough to slip by finger on occasion. Sometimes, one has a machine detecting pins from the long link, and the only time you realize it is when it detects a strike, which of course unlocks the full deck link. But most causes are previously outlined.
          Roscoe.

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          • #6
            Re: looses full deck signal

            K L Kevins remark about checking the roller and latch for the full deck link is right on. When the bushing in the roller wears and the roller won't turn, or when the latch wears out it won't stay latched when the deck goes into a strike mode. The reason for this is because the deck goes down lower on a strike which causes the full deck latch to un-latch. That is why it's only doing it sometimes. Change your latch and check the roller and bushing at the end of the long link.

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            • #7
              Re: looses full deck signal

              P.S. if you put on a new latch, you will find a point on the bottom side, grind it down flat, this will give you more time on the part so the deck lift shaft won't hit it and un-latch so quickly when some part wears down.

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              • #8
                Re: looses full deck signal

                I have been doing this for years,even on new installed lanes...cut at black line about 3/16"
                Sorry about the big picture.
                Peanut
                Peanut

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                • #9
                  Re: looses full deck signal

                  Hi fellas - I had this problem recently and only very occasionally on Lane 1 (furthest from our workshop
                  It turned out to be wear on the latch, the curved area had lost its profile and would slip off occasionally

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                  • #10
                    Re: looses full deck signal

                    After changing a rake frame, I've seen a lot of guys have double dumps coming out their ears...it was because they got out the level to re-adjust the turret...that may be alright for side to side...but not front to back...be sure to have a full deck, stop the machine at 90 degrees on a strike cycle and check the gap between the roller on the frame and the lever and re-adjust the turret accordingly.

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                    • #11
                      Re: looses full deck signal

                      You minght want to check and see WHEN it is losing the full deck signal. If the long curved link is bent, or the roller bellcrank is not mating squarely with the indexing cam, then you are probably not getting a full deck signal at all. However, if the blocking finger locks down, and then during the cycle pops up, then I would check the turret to make sure it is not high in the front. If the turret is not level, the latch may contact the roller on a strike cycle and cancel the full deck signal. If it doesn't make contact on a strike cycle, then I would agree that the latch itself probably needs replaced.
                      41 years and still learning....
                      lanedoctor@hotmail.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: looses full deck signal

                        Also check the bolt(pin) that holds the long link bellcrank. If you have had any pins on the rh side of the deck, chances are that the bolt(pin) is bent slightly. If it is then the long link won't always go back far enough to latch. I have seen this a number of times.

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                        • #13
                          Re: looses full deck signal

                          Here is an update on this guys, 2 of the 3 have been solved and we thank all of you that helped. However, #20 still does this. Here are my observations. With 21 pins in the machine we get a double dump into the deck pretty often. With 19 pins in the machine we get a 180 stop, maybe once a day, the deck is full but it stays at 180 until we trip the 180 interlock link. A week ago, I put 21 pins back in the machine and bungee corded (a small cord) the 180 interlock link forward. We have had absolutely no problems. No double dumps at all! Does this give me any clues as to what is wrong here? I'll bet it does and I aint smart enough to see it. Thanks for reading the post and I look forward to hearing any ideas.
                          Howard

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                          • #14
                            Re: looses full deck signal

                            Howard,

                            It sounds like interlock troubles. Check out the interlock system from the Oblong link (which could be bent) to the 180 turret interlock link ( worn spring within 180 tube) or the 180 turret intelock adjustment. Also X washer pin through the end of Clutch Release lever which connects the 180 lever could be worn flat as well. Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: looses full deck signal

                              I just had this same problem the last whole week. I just found the problem today and came on here to post what I found. It is so simple I put it in my Homer Simpson file. Turns out the strike light mercury switch had flipped over and the strike cam follower would catch on switch and not find the low of the cam on second ball. The machine would make the pinsetting cycle but not set any pins . It would release the full deck signal and when returns to 0 the turret would dump the next set of pins. This is after changing everything already mentioned above, it's been fun!
                              Not to mention the pissed off desk personel that's been getting there butts chewed because of the 180's.

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