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Maybe In the detector?

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  • Maybe In the detector?

    Ok, here's a problem I've been noticing with one of my converted A's. We had a problem with this lane double decking every now and then, and of course whenever you sit on it, it works like a charm. So we backed it down to 19 pins, and let it go. Now here comes the interesting thing. When I was working the counter, I noticed every now and then, it wouldn't set any pins. Deck went all the way down to set pins, but nothing was set. After seeing this, I immediatly thought it was the deck binding somewhere, on a loose screw or something. No luck. So I sat on it, and finally it decided to show me what was up. During a strike cycle, I watched the deck go down to detect for pins, come up then go all the way down to the pin deck like it was setting pins, but the moving deck never budged, nor did the machine stop at 180 (there were no pins in the deck). This blew my mind. It would go 2 more games before it even hicupped again, this time it was on 2nd ball, not a strike ball, the deck went all the way down, moving deck never moved, and came back up. When I reset it, it 180'd, but there were pins in the deck, from the time before when it didn't set. I'm completely confused. any help would be appreciated.

  • #2
    Re: Maybe In the detector?

    If you run it with 19 pins, ever catch it sitting at 180 with a full deck of pins? Long link could be bent. Just an idea.
    Marty

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    • #3
      Re: Maybe In the detector?

      thought about that, but the only time it 180s is after the deck goes down to set pins, but keeps it's current load, meaning doesn't set the pins that are in the buckets. So the long link is disengaged when the deck goes to the floor b/c it thinks it's setting a full rack of pins, but it isn't.. Is that making sense? lol

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      • #4
        Re: Maybe In the detector?

        It sounds to me like you are not getting short strokes on your deck...The deck lowering hook is not catching to give you a short "detecting" stroke. It will go all the way down to one inch off the pindeck unless it is held up by standing pins. It will also cancel the full deck signal on a strike detection.
        41 years and still learning....
        lanedoctor@hotmail.com

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        • #5
          Re: Maybe In the detector?

          Speeds:
          Lets start with the flag adjustment at 90 strike. Should be at least 3/16 under the sissors cam follower. At that point you can also ascertain whether there is any flag binding owing to loose bolt or dowel pin located behind flag, and or loose flag mtg. stud. Binding can also come from failing moving deck cam follower. This is a starting point, problems can also be in deck, but we have to elimanate from the top.
          Roscoe.
          rfm

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          • #6
            Re: Maybe In the detector?

            Make sure your cycle solonoid is not binding,or is out of adjustment...at 180 the bellcrank has to have play....if not it binds the D shaft on the detector and the strike cam follower does not fall all the way into the low dwell of timming cam.hence the flag can't move its full needed motion.

            Peanut
            Peanut

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            • #7
              Re: Maybe In the detector?

              Pins are not beening set because the scissors are probably closing at 90 degrees during an actual strike condition. Check at 90 degrees detecting a strike and look at the stike cam follower to see if it is in the low dwell of the timing cam.If it isn't your detector rod is probably out of adjustment. Check out adustment #1 pinsetter service manual. Note: Binding at the detector D shaft can also cause this same trouble.

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              • #8
                Re: Maybe In the detector?

                Thanks for the replies guys, it will be Wednesday before I know anything, got tomorrow off. but as far as the deck lowering hook is concerned, the deck is doing fine during first ball detection. The deck only goes down about half way for the detection process, not all the way to the ground.

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                • #9
                  Re: Maybe In the detector?

                  I agree with masternut, I would check that first.after that check the bolt that holds your flag assembly. Keep In mind that I have seen loose mounting plates cause that problem.
                  If that does not do It you will be replacing the D shaft assembly. I don't think I missed anything.
                  DO A NEAT CLEAN JOB, AND FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. THE ONLY WAY TO WORK.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Maybe In the detector?

                    Speed,
                    We had this same problem here last week, everything you explain exactly, I did the #18 moving deck-scissor latch adjustment and still no better, after days of research and scratching my head I happen to notice yesterday that the last mechanic had put the Moving Deck Scissor Selector on the D shaft backwords, the spring held it tight enough to work sometimes but not always, this thing has worked for over a year or better but had just started to be a problem, I took it off put it back on the right way and no problems since. Just one more thing to check. Hope you get it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Maybe In the detector?

                      When I have seen this problem, The flag cannot move freely on the D-shaft. Therefore you have eratic function of the deck. If the flag doesnt move properly it will go down to 270 and not be told to set pins.

                      William

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                      • #12
                        Re: Maybe In the detector?

                        speed...one thing to consider is if you weren't getting a strike detection, the machine wouldn't lower to the floor to try and set pins at 270. So, I would not worry (or change) about your detector rod adjustment or the "D" shaft assy. What you do need to know is if the scissors close at 90 degrees...this is hard to tell unless you are sitting on the machine to find out. Point is...if they close, check you moving deck/scissor selector on the "D" shaft to be sure it is on properly and if it is pinned properly. (check for a bad spirol pin) Also check the moving deck/scissor latch to be sure it is bolted properly as Roscoe pointed out. If the scissors aren't closing...then everything should be fine up to the moving deck cam follower. You probably have a moving deck bind, keeping the deck from shifting. The moving deck cables may also be too tight...causing the Geneva rollers to get caught on the flat part of the plates, not allowing them to follow the slots...effectivley freezing the moving deck. Now, this last scenario is unlikley because this will usually cause one of your moving deck cables to fall off and you didn't mention this problem. So, my money is on your moving deck/scissor latch or selector having a problem.

                        Good luck...
                        TSM & TSM Training Development
                        Main Event Entertainment
                        480-620-6758 for help or information

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Maybe In the detector?

                          Thanks for all the replies guys.. I feel loved.. Turns out, that the moving deck/scissor selector was binding.. The rod was bent slightly, and catching every now and then.

                          Sorry for the delay in a reply, but I do appreciate all you guy's help

                          Comment

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