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  • pins in gutter

    I am having a lot of pin in the gutter calls. Rakes are allready rubing flat gutters but look high at guard position. Rake cam seems ok. Some times they shoot a pin way up the gutter. I have several lanes giving me this problem.

    Thanks for any help.
    David

  • #2
    Re: pins in gutter

    not sure what kind of machines you have....that sometimes helps....but if there a-2's ...have you checked your c-lever adjustments?

    quas

    convince everyone your crazy and they will leave you alone

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: pins in gutter

      If you have the clevis type ends on your rake lift rods you can drill a 1/4 inch hole below the bumper and put either an X washer pin in there or a 1/4 inch bolt.

      This is of course asuming that all of the rake adjustments are set properly and that you have fast drop rakes.

      Charlie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
      Please buy MADE IN USA!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: pins in gutter

        David,Are you sure its your rake?You stated that the pins are way up in the gutter are you sure your pit curtain is not inverted and launching the pins back out and up the lane?Just a thought.

        Dave

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        • #5
          Re: pins in gutter

          Several thoughts

          1) If the rake is hitting bottom, be sure the shotgun is staying latched. If the gun fails, the rake will not lift at the rear end of its travel, and it shoots the pin out the front instead.

          2) If the gun's good, then start from the beginning of the rake height adjustments, and go all the way through. ASS-U-ME nothing's right. My next suspicion would be the rake cam (easy to tell, when the cam's timed right, the rake has a neat looking little hitch upward at the rear end of its travel, to discard any pins that the rake may be holding onto the neck of), but go through all the adjustments, in order, as they affect each other.

          Another "cheat" that I use is to check the C lever gap with the appropriate size drill bit shank. Anyone who says they can get it right with a ruler, I guess is a better man than I am, but the bit is quick and perfect, as opposed to looking at a ruler that you can't even get into the space you're measuring:

          Kevin

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          • #6
            Re: pins in gutter

            Thanks for the ideas. By the way machines are A's not A-2. They have zot dual triggering. I think shotguns are working right. Some pins are way up gutter but not all. Seems to be heighth problem. If I get rake low at guard, then it rubs flat gutters hard. When I raise to clear gutters Then it looks high at guard. I,ll take your ideas, the manual and see what I can do Monday.

            Thanks for the help.
            David

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: pins in gutter

              Often when you have problems like this the best thing you can do is to actually see it happen or talk with some one that has seen it so they can give you some insight.It would be a big help to you if you knew for sure that the pins were flying out before the rake ever came down.It would keep you from wasting time messing with a rake that might not have even been the problem.With that said,if the curtains are not flipped and your rake trip link is not inverted,then I would go back to your rake adjustments. They can't be correct if the rake end plates are almost hitting the flat gutters on the one hand and yet your rake is high in the guard position.I still think if you see it happen you will find that it is not your rake adjustment.It has been my experence that if they shot back down the lane it's is often because they are bouncing off of the cushion or curtain.I had it happen every now and then at "the boat" especially when they would shot at the 10 pin, they would throw the ball 90 miles per hour hit it and once in awhile the pin would fly right back out of the pit and go half way down the lane before the rake had even dropped.Good luck.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: pins in gutter

                This was posted by Masternut in another thread about a year ago. It helped me tremendously.

                Sounds like rake cam is not "balanced".Here is the way I have been doing it for years.
                The sweep pattern is different sweeping forward than sweeping back...

                Take the first measurment between the 2,3_4,5,6 pin spots as the rake is going back(towards Pit).
                Take second measurment at 1" behind head pin as rake is comming forward.

                These are the two lowest points in the cycle.You want to balance the cam until these measurment are the same(Within an 1/8).

                If measurment 1 is lower than measurment 2 then you need to retard rake cam ,if measurment 1 is higher than measurment 2 then you need to advance rake cam.

                Hope this makes sense its hard to write,but it works. It allows us to adjust our rakes to within 1/4 inch to the lane.

                Hope this helps,
                Peanut

                <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This method allowed me to adjust the rakes to 2" at guard without having them contact the lanes or flat gutters.
                <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>

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                • #9
                  Re: pins in gutter

                  Thanks for posting Ace, I couldn't find the thread.

                  Maybe Mike can post the rake adjustment in the referance section.I get alot of e-mails containing to rake sequeance adjustments.

                  Peanut
                  Peanut

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                  • #10
                    Re: pins in gutter

                    Just a thuoght, could the pins be falling from the terrut or deck while thesweep is coming forward.
                    Seen it happen.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: pins in gutter

                      My PIG problems have come from, let's call them conservative rake adjustments by mechs before me. Average gaps have been:

                      C lever 1/2" to 3/4"
                      Shotgun rollers 1/8" to 1/4"
                      Rake rod 1/2"
                      Cam balance out at least 1/2"

                      By Changing adjustments rakes look a lot better, but one is still giving me trouble. Little hitch at 180 is jest that, little. Cam balance looks right on. Rake at guard is 3 1/4" Deck clearance 3/8"

                      Shortening rake rod and moving rake stop might be my next step. Rake stops on my old A's don't look like picture in the book and all are set as far toward rear as they will go. Is this normal or another conservative adjustment?

                      Thanks David

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: pins in gutter

                        David;
                        Check the condition of the rake cam just to the rear of the low dwell. Many older cams or ones not properly lubed have this ejection hump worn off.
                        Roscoe.
                        rfm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: pins in gutter

                          Will check for bump. Don't think it's the problem. This machine has a single cam less than 2 years old. I did look at cam followers, no slideing.

                          Thanks David

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: pins in gutter

                            david.. i have been using a tool for many years on problems that i can never seem to see it happen. i put together a camera system with a vcr and a moitor and a small camera we use this all over the pinsetter. from 180,s.. ball calls.. black outs..yes and pins in the gutter..if you can tape it you can fix it . example set camera up in front point at deck area you have your camera running all day you get your pin the gutter call stop vcr review call makes some changes .. DAN DESPLINTER

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: pins in gutter

                              Iv'e always wanted to do that Dan, but can't seem to get the boss to go along with it. Might have to do it on my own....

                              If it aint broke......give it a minute!
                              I got it ! I got it ! Oh damn

                              Comment

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