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Turret Woes


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  • Turret Woes

    We've been fighting with this turret the last couple weeks, this is the latest symptom.

    Right now, the torsion latch arm will not trigger the time delay gear to turn, therefore we've got a lot of 180's with 10 pins in the buckets, but you need to trip the indexing trip lever. When this happens, you can turn the torsion latch arm, but it still will not index. Have to hit the indexing trip lever. If you lift up on the torsion latch slightly, it just gives a little, and it will run ok for 10 or 15 minutes. It seems to have about a 1/16" play up and down.

    Looking at this machine from the side, it looks like the teeth on time delay gear is on the lower portion of the teeth on the turret drive gear. Maybe should be towards middle section of the turret drive gear.

    The torsion latch arm was just changed last night. We've changed the time delay gear and the short turret belt, and we've had the clutch in and out of the slides several times over the last couple weeks.

    We've also been playing with the tension on the adjustable spring (for the long turret belt, thus also the short turret belt), in the back of the machine, making the belts tighter. Another thing, even after making the short belt tighter, we noticed the short turret belt slipping along the large turret indexing cam (under the spider), while the turret was waiting for pins, expecially while waiting for the 5 pin. Don't know if this belt slipping has anything to do with this torsion latch problem.

    sorry long post-

  • #2
    Re: Turret Woes

    check the rubber stopper behind the torsion latch ...lots of times they flat spot causing major headaches such as you are describing


    • #3
      Re: Turret Woes

      Thanks, we've rotated that rubber stopper around, and it doesn't seem (?) to matter if its on latch is on the flat spot or not. I think is designed to be on the flat spot?

      The main problem is that the torsion latch seems to have too much play up and down its shaft; its free when rotated-not stiff. We're thinking about adding a spacer or washer on the shaft to raise the torsion latch.

      Oops, we didn't have long turret belt wrapped around one of the pulleys; seems to have taken care of the belt slippage problem.


      • #4
        Re: Turret Woes

        If you examine your turret clutch plate assy. you may find that the original rivots have worked loose.This is a common problem with the older sliding plates all brunswick new ones are now welded together.Loose rivots makes the teeth on disc assy and delay gear bind and resist turning after tripped by spider latch. I usually weld them but you haveta have a good welding rod because the metal is somewhat stainless or pigiron or some other mixture......Good luck with this. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]


        • #5
          Re: Turret Woes

          no there not designed to have a flat spot ....when you oreder them new they are round


          • #6
            Re: Turret Woes

            Check the torsion latch again,does it have a rub mark on it from hitting the delay gear?
            The rubber bumpers do come round BUT,in my working on over 84 machines i always leave the torsion latch on the flat spot w/o any troubles.
            With the entire clutch assy.out of the machine,assemble it on the bench and look at the underside when you move the latch,does it rub,is there a rub mark on the latch,if so grind it down a bit.
            I had one machine where i had to replace the delay gear due to it being bad(it was new),put on a good used one a all okay.The gearing should be pretty much even,not too low or high.You can use a thin washer to shim the latch and or delay gear.
            Is the delay gear POST good,and the delay gear bronze bearing good?,NO slop!
            Some places have good luck leaving the latch bumper round,i'm NOT knocking them at all but when i have tried moving it to the rounded part that's when i have troubles so i stay on the flat spot.There's a bind so put it on the bench assembled and move the latch as i said,turn the gears,is it moving?Don't mis-align where the spring goes,those 2 posts must be in the holes,sometimes it may feel it's in but it's not and when you tighten it all down..POOF,there's a bind!
            Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!


            • #7
              Re: Turret Woes

              Food for thought. The reason for the flat spot in the rubber bumper is because of the torsion latch is up against the block on the underside of the time delay gear. The theory is that if the torsion latch is resting on a full rubber bumper there is too much of the latch resting on that block and won't disengage. With the torsion latch resting on the flat spot of the bumper, the torsion latch is resting only half way on that block and will disengage a lot easier.

              One other trick. If you look straight down on the torsion latch post and its hidden under the frame of the pinsetter, that means your short turret belt is stretched and has got to go. You have nothing too lose to change it anyway.


              • #8
                Re: Turret Woes

                Bananas, Check this in sequence.... First, does the trip arm on the spider ring contact and trip the torsion latch? If yes, then does the time delay gear rotate? If it doesn't then check for a bind in the turret clutch and in the time delay gear. Look for trash in the teeth of the gears. I have even found belt material lodged in the teeth. This would make the clutch slip and not rotate the time delay gear when released. Dont worry about the gears not meshing in the middle, they usually dont. Now, if they are just barely meshing, check to make sure the roll pins on that pressure plate ring are inside their respective holes in the clutch plate and make sure the bolt and nut (Reverse thread) is tight. If the time delay gear rotates, does the indexing trip lever drop? If it doesnt then check your linkages and especially the roller bearing that rides the bottom of the time delay gear, make sure that it is there. If all that is ok then you should check and change your short turret belt and pulley and check for binds in the turret.
                Check these along with the other posts, you should be able to cure your problem..Keep us informed...................Chuck


                • #9
                  Re: Turret Woes

                  I had one machine that would not index after the 5 occasionally. After replacing pretty much everything, I got fed up. I took a welder to the ramp on the time delay gear and built it up then ground it down smooth. No problems since. The gear would not press down on the bearing far enough to disengauge the latch. Still don't know exatly why (all parts were new with no free play), but it works great now.
                  <span style="font-style: italic">Sometimes it is best to use good advice from many individuals to achieve the ultimate result.</span>


                  • #10
                    Re: Turret Woes

                    Assuming all the above has no effect, Brunsace may be on the right track especially if there is general wear in your index mechanism ( bellcrank, short link &amp; index latch) allowing the latch to come too far over the index roller making the whole system "tighten" up. As we all know, often the cause of FTIs (Fail to Index) Worth a look as you seem to have changed everything else.
                    Good Luck.


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