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  • Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

    Every now and then lane 2 the rake will be down after sweeping pins away from 1st ball cycle.The machine goes to 2nd ball as normal but the rake is down.
    Now that said...i have seen it do it but out of the corner of my eye and i saw the rake sweep height adjustment rods(those long thin one's going to the sweep arms)bend badly when it tried to go up then,the rake sweep just sat down.
    Linkage is loose,not bound up,well lubed.,pivots look good and well lubed.Could the cushion shocks be causing this?I watched the shocks and they seem very sloppy/worn out,ball hits cushion and shocks shoot way up,come down a bit and i think i see a binding in them,all rubber mountings are good and lubed as usual.
    It's always on 2nd ball after it happens,has NEW 1-2 ball microswitch too!
    SO...ball hit's cushion,sweeps pins away as normal,machine goes up normally but rake binds up and drops.,shotgun is locked!Rake timing is prefect,one of the best sweep actions i have here.I have to lift up on deck holding hook to put into 1st ball then cycle machine when this occurs.Can do it 2x a week or nothing in a month.
    Crank rod is fine,sweep link rod is fine,hook selector bearing intact and lubed.It's like putting a heavy weight on the sweep and then let it try to come up,starts to come up but then goes down.Very odd!Okay brainy acts...ideas??(lol).
    Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

  • #2
    Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

    GEARHEAD,
    sounds like your shotgun is not staying locked all the time,check the rake shock adjustment,if the gap is too small it may not lock all the time. if the gap is ok,maybe your shotgun is worn,and needs help [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] or you can try putting a extra spring on to keep it closed tighter.
    if things aren't going right just use a bigger hammer! DIRT

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

      Well, first thing I would do is take care of the pit cushion linkage. If its been running loose for awhile then more than likely you will have worn parts. I've only seen it cause binding with rake going down. Which brings me to the question, how well is the rake coming down with ball impact? The next thing I would maybe look at is your spring tube action. Is it noisy?(you can here it when the deck is moving up and down, often mistaken for bad deck post bearings) Is it well lubed? If the spring is going I can see it causing problems. Your rake cam? Im sure you looked at that since you checked the timing, so that might eliminate 1:1 issues.

      Another thing that came to mind is, make sure you have your weight placement correct in your cushion linage.

      Think small, and work your way from there. The answer is probably staring at you right in your face.

      After re-reading your post and then looking at dirts, I thought of something. When the machine is off, drop the rake. Then try to lock the rake back in place. You might be able to feel the bindings this way. I do this when I am lazy at the end of night you find rakes down from ball being thrown on off lane.
      Hard work and determination is the answer to all problems.

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      • #4
        Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

        Rake shock is about 7 months old,drops very smooth.Springtube is quiet,not jerky yet...i may swap it out anyway because ya can't see inside it.Shotgun is always locked yet again...i could swap it out.,i'll do shotgun Wednesday.It's just odd that those 59 1/2 inch(?)rods bend,never seen that before.A year ago i had to re-time the rake cam,before i got this place the sweep was awefull,nice and smooth now but for the bind.
        Drops smooth as i said upon impact,shocks go WAY UP and seem to stick,other machines do not do this.,i ordered new shocks and will also install fresh linkage assy at same time when shocks arrive.
        Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

          gearhead,
          another thing I'VE seen happen,is if the shotgun doesn't stay locked,the rake board could get caught on the adapter blocks because the flat gutter is to low,and the rake board catches on the adapter,then the rake board might break it
          self loose and when you get there the shotgun is locked with the rake down! try un latching the shotgun as the rake starts back and see if the rake catches on the adapter blocks as the rake is just about 270.
          you could also adjust the 180 rake stop in tight at 180,and if the shotgun is not locked when it hits 180 it will make the shotgun lock again.
          if things aren't going right just use a bigger hammer! DIRT

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          • #6
            Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

            Gearhead, Old Dirt Man is correct. At some point in time during the raking cycle , the shot gun is coming unlatched. I have had this problem in 2 of the centers that I service. I removed, and completely rebuilt the shotgun assemblies. Check your flat gutters ,and the adapter to see if you can see evidence of the rake contacting these areas. Also sit on the machine and "unlatch " the shotgun as the rake starts through the cycle. You will most likely see the condition you described. Good luck, Mark
            There is light at the end of the tunnel - just be sure it is not a train.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

              Take a look at the rake lift shaft - where the top of the rake shock gets bolted on. Holes get worn out causing sloppy action in the rake shock adjustment and the shotgun will stay unlocked at times, but relock while the rake is moving forward from 180 to 270 position. Also someone getting a little too strong and over tightning the bolt for the top of the shock while its missing a spacer or two will cause some weird rake-shotgun action. Only other thing I can think of, bad pit cushion shock hanging up not allowing the cushion to drop back down to the normal rest position, and that would cause the bending of the lift rods you also described. Probably would have to remove the shocks to tell if there is something going on there.
              Marty - Liberty Lanes
              56 Jap A-2's Qubica VDB's
              2 Kustodian Walkers
              http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/a2mechanic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                Get the book out and go through all the rake adjustments in order. Check the detent in the shotgun shaft and make sure the edge is square. Make sure the rake is not slamming to a stop when it comes forward. And make sure the pit chusion suppoprt brackets are straight on the kickback topplate, if the brackets won't stay straight once you get them lined up, drill a hole down between the anchor bolts through the plate and drive a roll pin in it.

                And if you still have the Toshiba motors with the 50 hertz pulley, put jetback pulleys on and slow the machine down. between the motor that spins @ 1900 rpm because its a 50 hertz motor and the oversized 50 hertz pulley these machines have a cycle time of about 7 seconds compared to 9 for a regular A-2, way to fast and this will just slam the machine apart.
                BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                  I'm a little confused. You stated

                  "Now that said...i have seen it do it but out of the corner of my eye and i saw the rake sweep height adjustment rods(those long thin one's going to the sweep arms)bend badly when it tried to go up then,the rake sweep just sat down."

                  When they were trying to go up? There is nothing to force the sweep arms up against the adjustment rods...are you sure they weren't caught behind the rake sweep arm stops and were just bent due to that and snapped out from behind the stops as the rake was being raised up? Just a thought...
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                    Well...i swapped out the shotgun,it's worse.
                    The shotgun latch unlocks just as the rake comes rearward,then of course it drags the deck and get's stuck on the adapter blocks and binds up.
                    Why is it unlocking when it comes back,say-oh,about 6 inches maybe more.
                    I had to put a long spring on the latch and hook it to the front shotgun bolt,then she locks every time,no probs then.I'll try another shotgun Thursday.Shock gap is/seems good,1/4 gap at the c-lever.Tried other shotgun springs but had to use the longer one for a temp fix.Cushion linkage loose meaning,no binds-broken parts.A 6lb ball trips it very nice.
                    Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                      If you changed the "shotgun" and the problem got worse...then you are on the right track. Why does it collapse after 6" of rearward travel? Because that is when the rear edge of the detent in the shaft is meeting the roller that is in the detent. Either the edge of the detent is not sharp and square or the adjustment is too far off. Easy way to do a shock adjustment...cycle machine to 90 degrees. Loosen jam nut on shock. Turn adjusting nut on shock counter-clockwise. After 2 or 3 full turns of the nut, push open the "shotgun" and see if it stays open. (You want it to stay open) If it doesn't, keep turning counter-clockwise. When it does finally stay open, turn adjusting nut clockwise slowly until "shotgun" re-closes. Turn adjusting nut 1/4 turn more clockwise. Secure jam nut. You will now have enough clearance between the roller and rear edge of detent to allow a positive re-lock and a small enough clearance to keep the "shotgun" from popping open when the rake starts to sweep. If it does pop open after this adjustment...I would replace the shaft and/or the sleeve bearing in the trip latch housing. If you try to pick up on the bottom of the housing while at 90 degrees and you can raise it more than 1/4 of an inch...I would replace the bearing. If you need instructions on how to make a kit to remove the bearing, let me know.
                      TSM & TSM Training Development
                      Main Event Entertainment
                      480-620-6758 for help or information

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                        They say,3rd time is the charm.Replaced shotgun with a 3rd one that this time i know is good and she's all better now!I did the shock adj.also.Sweeps like a charm.
                        Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rake Bind,Jap.A-2 units

                          They say,3rd time is the charm.Replaced shotgun with a 3rd one that this time i know is good and she's all better now!I did the shock adj.also.Sweeps like a charm.THANKS to everyone for the help!!!
                          Use what you have to,to get it through the shift then fix it right.Do it right and live through the night...Safety first!

                          Comment

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