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  • 1st ball cycle is skipped

    Hello and thanks for reading. I am trying to help out a smaller center.

    They have 8 lanes, model A pinsetters. #3 skips the 1st ball. After setting a new set of pins it goes straight to ball 2 and the 90 degree overtravel.

    The owner says that this all started immediately after the last repair job where a part broke. He replaced the part and set everything to the book.

    Any ideas on where to start looking? Thanks again.
    Howard

  • #2
    Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

    It might help if you told us what part broke, this might narrow the possible solutions.
    But I would check the detector rod, make sure the stop pin is perpendicular to the gearbox support bracket (pg3-3 sevice manual). Then I would check the link assy.(PG17 gb210) to see if it's hooked up the the clutch reset lever (pg29, gb357) in parts book. If I remember right this hook must be connected for proper control of 90 degree over travel.

    hope this helps-Larry

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    • #3
      Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

      Larry - thanks for the suggestions. As of right now, I dont know what part broke but I will probably visit that center tomorrow night and find out more. I will post what I find out. I doubt I will be smart enough to figure it out but I am going to give it a try. Thanks again.
      Howard

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      • #4
        Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

        Howard:

        Odds are you'll find out that he broke the "bitch bolt", that holds the moving deck cam follower shaft (one of the few piss-poor parts of the design).

        When this happens, the result is usually that the standing pins latch in the detector gets bent out of shape, so it can't tell the machine to run a first ball cycle.

        READ FIRST, READ AGAIN, THEN DO ... PLAYING WITH THE HOLDING HOOK ON OVERTRAVEL MACHINES IS HAZARDOUS

        To test, set a new rack, and shut off the power when she gets to 0. Odds are that the holding hook will be in the down position, to catch the deck as overtravel starts, and the second ball light will be on. Be SURE the machine is at 0, with the deck lowering link holding its weight Now, lift up on the hook (to try to reset the machine to first ball. You should hear a click, and the hook should stay up, like she's ready to make the first ball cycle. If she won't, and the holding hook just wants to stay down and the light says second ball all the time, you've got a bent lever inside the detector. Just to verify, you can look at the machine next door, with machine at 0 and power off, push forward on the standing pins latch (the most forward of all the detector levers) You should hear a click and the holding hook will drop (the clutch will also engage to do the overtravel, that's why you do it with power off so she can't bite you) Now, if you lift up on the hook, she will click back in to first ball, with the hook up:

        Kevin

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        • #5
          Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

          Kevin - thanks. I was not sure on an A machine with overtravel, that it would go back to ball 1 if you stopped it at zero and lifted up on the hook. We are planning on going tonight if everything works out. I will be sure to post what we find. Thanks again.
          Howard

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          • #6
            Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

            We looked at this machine last night. When it sets a new set of pins, the 1-2 ball light switches from ball 1 to ball 2 at 270 degrees. The machine goes to zero and then performs the 90 degree over-travel.

            All of the previous suggestions were checked and all seems to be in order. By stopping the machine at zero degrees and holding the deck holding hook up, the machine does perform the ball 1 cycle. Scissors close, etc.

            However, it does stop at 90 degrees just as it does with the overtravel. Re-engaging the clutch at this point causes the machine to finishe the 1st ball cycle, return to zero and then go on to perform the 90 degree overtravel.

            So, looks like a detector thing to me. Any more suggestions or comments are welcome. Thanks.
            Howard

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

              If he has a good spare detector, put it in. The one that's on it needs a standing pins latch.

              My mistake, forgot that an O/T machine needs to see first ball condition before 0 in order to stop at 0

              I'll edit with part# when I get to work:

              Kevin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

                There is a spring that attaches between the standing pins controller and selector. Is it there? You can find this on page 17 of your parts manual. Index number GB215. Part number 12-100157.

                Kevin...what is a standing pins "latch"? There is a standing pins controller, selector and cam follower. Which one of these will bend if the bolt for the moving deck cam follower shaft breaks. I can see a bent selector causing his problem, but how does it get bent? I've never had anything bend except the mounting plate on the 1:1. And aint that a fun one...lol

                ...this is the beauty of this site...you can always learn something new.
                TSM & TSM Training Development
                Main Event Entertainment
                480-620-6758 for help or information

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                • #9
                  Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

                  Steve - thanks for the tip. Yep, the spring is there. I suggested that the owner call Jerry Maul in Hastings which is about 30 miles away. Jerry is an A-2 wiz as he spent many years at Pastime Lanes in Hastings keeping their A-2s going. You should see those machines, like new and clean as a whistle. Jerry knows his stuff. We have also used Jerry at our center when we have a stumper. Thanks again for all the help.
                  Howard

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                  • #10
                    Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

                    Steve: Thanks for the correction, it's the standing pins selector that's bent, part GB 216.

                    The key is that he said that the 2 ball light comes on at 270, setting pins.

                    At 270, setting pins, the detector disc is blocking the motion of the standing pins controller, the standing pins selector is under the standing pins cam follower, blocking it from moving. The only way it can follow the low dwell of the cam is if the selector is bent, or the disc isn't in the right position.

                    I had to clean up the aftermath, didn't see HOW it managed to bend the part, just know that it can happen. It started from the bolt that holds the moving deck follower breaking, backed out, bent the shytt outta the side plate. Another guy straightened the side cover and put the deck cam follower back right, they called me when it became a detector issue:

                    Kevin

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                    • #11
                      Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

                      Looking at the situation from another angle - check out your clutch reset lever, if memory serves me right sometimes the cam follower can break off resulting in the machine overrunning and with the clutch locked out (disengaged) & the deck resting on standing pins. If the part is broken make sure your replace with the correct one I think there are different types of reset lever for A/A2. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

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                      • #12
                        Re: 1st ball cycle is skipped

                        Gentlemen:
                        KL has this nailed, when machine goes to second ball, while setting pins, it is most often a bent C shaft latch. Various reasons for the bending, but same results.
                        Roscoe.
                        rfm

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