1:1 shaft wear

[planet_rob]

Hi all....I have a pinsetter that knocks over pins at times when setting new pins. The moving deck shifts very abruptly right around 270 degrees. Instead of a smooth movement, the deck jerks and at times this knocks pins over. I feel like this problem is due to a worn 1:1 shaft. Watching the shaft as the pinsetter goes thru and past 270 degrees, the shaft shifts as if there is wear on the inner teeth/cogs/splines. All the cams on this shaft will momentarily hesitate at this point and then when they shift hard, it makes the deck shift hard as well. This slight movement on this shaft has been present for the 3.5 years Ive been here...but hasnt been a problem whatsoever. Now though, it would seem that the movement or wear is getting worse, worse enough to affect pinsetting.

What Im thinking is that this shaft needs replacing. Anyone else have any ideas? Ive inspected cables and pullies related to the moving deck, checked the moving deck for binding, and oiled, greased, and spit on all parts. If it's a shaft replacement, then have there been any posts on the procedure? I've never done this and would appreciate someones 'tricks of the trade'.

Thanks in advance........rob

[KL Kevin]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

From what you're describing, it sounds like a worn or busted key/keyway on the shaft.

Roscoe posted the procedure to r+r a 1/1 in the reference section. HIGHLY recommended, as I had done about 5 before I read his way, and his way took 3 hours off of my best time ever.

You should have a spare 1/1 in good condition ready to put in, then you can send the bad one out to be rebuilt (unless you just happen to have a 20 ton press and smoke wrench in your shop)

For never having done one, I would figure on 10 hours if you have help (the first one is NEVER easy, and speed only becomes a matter of pride after you know you can do it right so start real early or do it on a day when you know you don't need the machine that night, as this is one job you don't want to have a deadline on until you have a few of them under your belt.

With my "B" helping, and thoroughly cleaning the stuff you'll never get to with the 1/1 in place, we're down to 5 hours, and that's as good as I want to be (guys who do them in less than that are doing too many of them :p :p )

One other note: when the 1/1 is out, it presents a great opportunity to clean parts of the machine that will not be accessible again till you have to do that 1/1 again, so dig in with the rags while you have the chance:

Kevin

[billman]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Rob, watch the cams very closely. Using a flashlight, determine if it is just the moving deck/scissor cam that is moving. Also look for what appears to be grease at the seam where the Md/scissor cam and the rake cam meet. I had several of these and it turned out to be just the key for the cam.(P/N 12-100187-008) Run the pinsetter to the point where the "jump" occurs, remove power, remove the moving deck cable, and using a rag to protect your hand; try to move the MD/scissor cam. If it moves without moving the rake cam, then you have the easier key to replace.I can e-mail you the procedure that I use to do replace the key. (I don't want to take up too much space in the forum)

billman

[planet_rob]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

I will do that in the morning when Im at work billman. I can tell you this. The outer rake cam (actually a double cam) will move independantly from the moving deck/scissor cam. I can grab it at 0 degrees and move it back and forth....but as far as the point when they all shift, well they all do. So really I have two movements. But Ill give that a try in the morning and post results here. Thanks for your response....hopefully I wont have the 10+ hour work ahead of me!

....rob

[planet_rob]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Billman....

I have lots of grease at the seam you mentioned. Also...about the play with the rake cam....It has a bit more than the moving deck cam. I can move the deck cam a little but I have to hold the rake cam in order to get movement from the deck cam only...but thats from the slop in the rake cam Im assuming. But its starting to look like the key problem you mentioned. Email procedure at

[email protected]

Thank you very much.

.....rob

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

rob...if you have play that allows that kind of movement...you can buy a year or so by installing a new key, but the best thing to do is replace the 1:1 due to the wear on the shaft and cam at the point the moving deck/scissor cam mounts to the shaft. The fit should be a press fit and if you can move it, you will have worn both the mating surfaces enough that they will just do this again.

[Rob H]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Bad 1:1s can certainly knock pins over at 270, but are you absolutely certain that the bind isn't in the deck itself? This can have the same effect, and is usually caused by a loose spotting finger or deck chute bolt.

Just my 2 cents

[planet_rob]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Hey Rob.....Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a worn key(way). As posted above, I inspected the moving deck and all parts within and in between. With deck cable off I can move the cam a little bit at the degree of operation inwhich the deck shifts hard and knocks pins over. With the cable off I also checked deck for smoothness of motion.

Thanks for the reply and suggestions! Keep them coming in!

....rob

[planet_rob]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Hey....Just to let everyone know.....The key on the lane that knocked over pins was not broken...but very worn. I replaced the key, cleaned everything while I was in there...inspected the keyway in the 1:1 shaft, (it looks fine and the new key was snug going in), shined and greased it all up and no play at all now. No hard deck shifting now.

Thanks Billman for the step by step on taking these cams off and JBees..I will keep in mind what you said about wear and the problem coming back. Everything is super tight and not even the slightest wiggle at all....so I will keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks to all who posted...........rob

[billman]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Glad to have been of help.

billman

[BrnsA2Mech]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

i've got a machine that does the same could you please e-mail me the list of to do's

[email protected]

[billman]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Sent it to ya! Have fun!

billman

[HouseBall]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Me too, billman

[email protected]

thanks,

JOEY

[planet_rob]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Ha!! I asked the question the whole class was afraid to ask!! haha.

Guess what i noticed yesterday....the lane next to it is starting to do the same thing. I have a strong feeling that at some point in the future I am going to be replacing those shafts as wear gets more evident in the keyway.

Glad I asked!

...rob

[Roscoe]

Re: 1:1 shaft wear

Billman:
Not being privy to your e-mail, I don't know if you are instructing mechs to install the cam and hub, using a length of 5/8 all thread, a 5/8 coupleing nut in conjunction with the pipe spacers required. I have seen some mechs attempt to drive those componets on with a hammer and pipe, all the while unaware that they are driving against two grade two,1/4 inch bolts.
Your friend in the business.
Roscoe.