Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

[Hanging Bananas]

Minikit A's with shotgun/quick drop rake.

Rake board got stuck behind lane deck on 10-pin side during league. They pried it out. Now it looks like the rake arm repair (pipe inserted into rake arm, bolted through) near the shock is not straight. And the rake sweep is awful, lots of deadwood, and the 10-pin side is a little further towards the back of machine than the 7-pin side.

While sitting on the machine waiting for the next deadwood, saw the deck hook fall off its post during the 2nd ball cycle. Hook was worn, we changed it. Wondering if the deck had fallen onto rake once and started this mess. Got through next day by adjusting thin rods on 7 and 10 pin side, compromise between not rubbing the deck too much and not leaving too much deadwood. But one side of rake is higher than the other.

Question 1:
Looking at the previous posts, do we need to go through all the adjustments, and in a certain order? Or can we just do the rake height adjustment (Masternut method). Already adusted rake cam once to fit in low of dwell at 180. It was out.

Question 2:
We'll probably order a new rake shaft/arms assy for the machine. Do any of you have any preference? We've heard bad things about Brunswick's 3 piece design, particularly with the slotted key. We've got one Zot 3 piece installed for a long time, but the rake arms are thicker and have a tendency to rub against machine deck if not adjusted right. The Quality 3 piece comes apart at the arms, so that maybe easier to replace just one arm.

thanks

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

If you are going to attempt to adjust what you have, you will need to bend the rake arm back to a point where it is relativley straight before attempting the adjustment...otherwise, you may be just pi$$in' in the wind. You will probably need a torch to straighten them. Once it is straight, I would then start at the begining of the adjustment and do all of it. It will take you about 20 minutes to accomplish the entire adjustment...just follow the procedure we have given in previous threads...

Link to Rake Adjustment

As far as which rake arm assy to buy...I'm sure many mechanics have their own preference. I personally like the Quality version with the replaceable arms that slide up inside the shaft assy. This is because the arms can be replaced even by the novice of pinchasers, it can be done in less than 10 minutes and you only need to keep one style of replacement arm in inventory. It has it's disadvantages...strength is sacrificed for ease of installation, but I can live with that. I buy ours from Murrey...they are a little less expensive than Quality (Brunswick) and I like their customer service better than the Big "B". Hey...but that's just my opinion...

If we can be of any other help to you...just ask.

[Gaylon]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Check the rake sweep rod. Make sure it is not bent. This can cause the rake not to sweep when it is supposed to. If the rake cought the back of the pindeck then you will have to do all of the adjustments for the rake doard hight.

Just a Thougt

[HLanesPBurg]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

If you say that the rake repair kit is bent then I would first try to take it out and install a new one. I have done this before...not easy but it did staighten the rake arm back out. Then you can do all your adjustments to get everything back in sinc.
J.D. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[shamefowjze]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Roscoe mentioned in another thread about using a come-along connected to the light bar to bend them back straight. Quite ingenius, if you ask me. As for what brand to buy. I don't have any input as to which is the best. But if you decide to go with the Brunswick arms, tack-weld the joint with the keyway. In all reality how often are you going to replace arms? Weld them at the keyway keeps them from coming apart, which they do.

Alex

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Alex...the Quality style has no keyway to come apart. And you don't have to take a half-dozen parts off to replace either of the arms. The other styles have a left hand side and a right hand side...just more to keep in stock. The replacement arms for the Quality style cost like 40 bucks or so...pretty inexpensive when compared to the other styles.

[Hanging Bananas]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Yikes...we had the rake get caught behind the pindeck again...with the new Quality rake shaft/arms installed. Everything looked adjusted ok, ran for 3 days ok. This time it got caught behind pindeck and bent the rake crank rod. I suppose the new rake arm wasn't the weakest part this time.

Guess I need to take a look at former threads:
<a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000614</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
and
<a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000945</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
Any other ideas? I don't understand how the shotgun failing to latch would cause the rake to get caught behind pindeck, as the one thread suggests.
Ok, I guess if the shotgun doesn't re-latch, the rake trip shaft "shortens" the distance to the rake cam, allowing the rake more rearward travel.
The rake safety stop does look a little bent.
Also, rake shock absorber is leaking fluid now, after a weeks worth of adjustments. Would that lengthen the rake travel?

[Kirby G]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Since you can eliminate the safety stop as the problem, rebuild the shotgun. First replace the three 1/4" bolts that run through the mousetrap and I'll bet a nickel to dollar you'll solve this. Of course you need to make sure the thing is adjusted to spec. Most important is the small gap between the lower roller bearing and the indentation on the shaft. And if that indentation is worn {rounded off at the arrow in the awesome ASCII pic below}, then replace the shaft.

___ roller up here_________
.....\_<--........_/
.......\_........_/
.........\____/

_________________________

front of machine------->

Or you could also swap the shotgun with another machine to see if the problem moves.

And one other thought: you could adjust the total travel of the rake by shortening the rake sweep link {if it's not bent too badly by now or put in a collapsable unit}. You'll need to push the stop blocks back a bit so the rake sweep latch can actually catch the rake arm and then also adjust the height. If the rake can only go to the back edge of the deck and not past it, it should never get stuck behind the tailplank no matter what happens up top.

[A2-Ace]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Kirby, I could be wrong (it did actually happen once back in '73. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] ), but if the rake's rearward travel is stopped ( at 180 and the rake cam follower bearing in the low of the cam) at the edge of the pindeck, then any pin that has the misfortune of having the rake board on the neck of the pin with the head forward would be dragged back onto the lane surface causing a lot of deawood calls.

Me personally, I would try going though all the rake adjustments, in order starting with Adjustment #2 (page # 3-4 of the B.A.P.M.) and paying very close attention to steps number 5 and 6 of adjustment #3 on page 3-8.

Also Kirby, you have a very good point about the wear on the detent in the rake trip shaft, if the roller "pops out" of the detent, the rake board will fall behind the tail plank if the rake stops are not adjusted properly.

P.S. Nice ASCII drawing. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

No offense Ace...but I wouldn't recommend the books adjustment to anybody. Following that adjustment will take lots of time (stuff I don't have a whole lot of) and tends to lead to balding heads (from too much hair pulling and head scratching). They have you make an adjustment then check another item and if thats off...change the adjustment you just made. I posted a link earlier in this thread to a complete rake adjustment from start to finish that will have you only make any adjustment once in the sequence. And trying to measure the distance that the rake should sweep to the rear by the book is just plain torture. There is a better and easier way...

Link to Rake Adjustment

Try this to adjust your rakes...good luck.

[Larry]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Check servie manual pg 3-8 fig 7. This will stop your rake from dropping below the pin deck if shot gun does not latch. Providing rake rearward travel not too far back.

[A2-Ace]

Re: Rake shaft and arms out of kilter

Originally posted by JBEES:
No offense Ace...but I wouldn't recommend the books adjustment to anybody. Following that adjustment will take lots of time (stuff I don't have a whole lot of) and tends to lead to balding heads (from too much hair pulling and head scratching). They have you make an adjustment then check another item and if thats off...change the adjustment you just made. I posted a link earlier in this thread to a complete rake adjustment from start to finish that will have you only make any adjustment once in the sequence. And trying to measure the distance that the rake should sweep to the rear by the book is just plain torture. There is a better and easier way...

Link to Rake Adjustment

Try this to adjust your rakes...good luck.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No offence taken JBEES. I have never claimed to know EVRYTHING about pinsetters (well, almost never... ). I have saved your post on the rake adjustments and plan on trying it your way, it looks like your way would save a lot of backtracking. I'm always open to new ideas.

Like others have said before, this forum is about mechanix world wide getting together to share ideas and info and I will always respect other peoples input to any of my posts (as long as it's an honest opinion, and not someone just trying to honk me off). And I could be wrong sometime (it did happen once back in '73 [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] ).

[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]