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  • todays mysterious table activities

    let me start with the fact that the 2pin respot cell was seriously damaged...i rebuilt it and repaired the broken wire...reinstalled on the machine...works fine, strike cycle good...next day, if any single pin is left, the pinsetter calls it a strike, and the pin sticks in the respot cell...i have witnessed this happen with a 5pin, 7pin, and 6pin.....X on the triangle...pin up in the cell....scoring is a camera, so the score shows a nine count...picks up all ten pins just fine, no wobbling...only a nine count...i could see a wire causing the lack of a strike cycle, but this is the opposite...perhaps the wire i repaired? there were three wires connected to the switch posts, and one post with no wire, but lots of solder...so i reattached it there....welcome your thoughts as always! thanks...

  • #2
    That's a good one, lol. Does it only happen with a single pin left? Or will it do it with multiple pins left? (2? 3?). The rear 2 terminals on the respot switches (the 2 closest to the pinwheel) are for the pindicator lights on the masking unit. The rear-left terminal should be attached to a ground wire. If you don't have pindication on your masking units then you don't need the 2 rear wires at all. The 2 front wires on each switch are for the strike circuit. If you are reading a strike when you shouldn't then your K&L circuit is getting a ground somewhere. Perhaps you have the ground wire in the wrong place on the 2-pin you fixed? I attached a table wiring diagram to check out. You may need to stick a pin in a respot cell and trace where your ground is coming from using a meter. If you unhook the wires on either J26 or J27 in the J-Box and you still get a strike cycle then you know for sure you have a ground that isn't supposed to be there as the strike cycle should never work with either of those 2 disconnected.
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    Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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    • #3
      upon further reflexion.....i am thinking any strike recognized will have a pin stuck in the respot cell because the table never goes back down...so it doesnt matter which pin....but its so odd that it only happens on a nine count....i remember one of the two rear posts being the ones with the ground on one, and the other not connected...the front two appeared solid...perhaps i need to check the switch itself...also of note, some cells connect via a three prong plug, others go thru a grommet, as this one does...i had to pull the wires out of the tube, disconnect the spades...the opposite when done...lots of shoving...seems like a possible ground source in the tube too...the plug style are all smashed up...the grommet style stays clean...another random add.....i am color blind, so i take pictures of the wires to confirm proper reconnection...what if i screwed up some part of this? thanky!

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      • #4
        great table wiring pic by the way....

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        • #5
          if i have reversed the two wires that would be connected to the front of the switches, would the switch just be open at all times? instead of closed, waiting for a break...thus the strike signal? me thinks me be on to something.......based on the drawing above....hmmm....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by riverview scott View Post
            if i have reversed the two wires that would be connected to the front of the switches, would the switch just be open at all times? instead of closed, waiting for a break...thus the strike signal?
            If you just reverse the 2 wires on the front of the switch, it will still work as normal. It won't hurt anything. They can be connected on either side. But if you connect a wire that was supposed to be on the front of the switch to the back of the switch, then you will get problems. What kind of problems depend on which wire you hooked where. You will just need to investigate and trace wires and/or grounds to see if you can find the problem. Pushing those wires back in the wireway on respot cells without the plug can definitely be a trouble area if they weren't insulated properly or if they rub on the bolts inside the wireway and get a bare spot on them. Good luck!

            Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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            • #7
              thanks Louie....forgive a potentially dumb question? in the drawing above, is it possible that the switches are labelled backwards? shouldnt the switches be normally closed, waiting for any switch to break the circuit, for a non strike? in my mind i had the wiring exactly as shown, but the nc vs no is the opposite, in my head...

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              • #8
                the old drawing in my old book, show symbols...a pair of broken/unconnected lines mean normally open...two lines with a line across them means normally closed...in my old drawing the rear wires for the pindicator are shown as normally open, the front two, normally closed...i believe however, that i somehow shuffled all three and will be going in to test the continuity shortly....thanks again!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by riverview scott View Post
                  thanks Louie....forgive a potentially dumb question? in the drawing above, is it possible that the switches are labelled backwards? shouldnt the switches be normally closed, waiting for any switch to break the circuit, for a non strike? in my mind i had the wiring exactly as shown, but the nc vs no is the opposite, in my head...
                  They are labelled correctly in the technical sense. Switch contacts are always labelled for their status when the switch is not actuated. In this case, when there is no pin in the respot cell, the switch is actuated, meaning the button on the switch is pushed in. Therefore, with no pin in the respot cell, the switch's Normally-Open contacts are closed and the Normally-Closed contacts are open. However, I see why that can be confusing since one tends to think of "Normally" as the state the contacts are in with the machine at zero when nothing is happening.

                  Originally posted by riverview scott View Post
                  the old drawing in my old book, show symbols...a pair of broken/unconnected lines mean normally open...two lines with a line across them means normally closed...in my old drawing the rear wires for the pindicator are shown as normally open, the front two, normally closed
                  A line across the contacts on the schematic doesn't necessarily mean "Normally-Closed", it just means that those contacts are closed with the machine at zero. As I explained above, if the switch is "on" or "actuated" when the machine is on zero, then the Normally-Open contacts of that switch will be closed with the machine on zero. This is actually very common on the machine as most of the switches are actually actuated with the machine on zero such as SA, TA1, TA2, SW4, SW5, the respot switches, & the cushion cycle switch. All of which have their N.O. contacts connected with the machine at zero position.
                  Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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                  • #10
                    holy crap batman! what an excellent explanation...both parts make sense for me now....totally get it....that said, how bout this one: the lane next to it is now doing the same thing...a nine count called a strike, pin still in the respot cell, in the air...i have mentioned that at times i think the place is haunted...by the way, your explanation shows how much more knowledge you have than i...as my dad would have said, "i am just smart enough to be dangerous!"......thanks again, much appreciated!

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                    • #11
                      I've had that happen more time than I can count over the years before we started running purely off the cameras.

                      It was always a wire issue. Just connect a meter to the L and K wires from the table wiring plug. Then go pin to pin and close the respot like there is a pin being picked up and see what one has the issue.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by riverview scott View Post
                        how bout this one: the lane next to it is now doing the same thing...a nine count called a strike, pin still in the respot cell, in the air...i have mentioned that at times i think the place is haunted...
                        Ya, definitely haunted, lol. It's strange enough happening on one lane, but on 2 lanes at once? That's crazy. Especially if it happens on different pins. I can't say I've ever ran across that particular problem and I've serviced many 82-30s at many different centers. I can only guess there is something grounding somewhere that shouldn't be. Just have to trace the circuit and find the culprit.
                        Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Louie_IV View Post

                          Ya, definitely haunted, lol. It's strange enough happening on one lane, but on 2 lanes at once? That's crazy. Especially if it happens on different pins. I can't say I've ever ran across that particular problem and I've serviced many 82-30s at many different centers. I can only guess there is something grounding somewhere that shouldn't be. Just have to trace the circuit and find the culprit.
                          2 lanes is odd yes but multiple pins is normal. Since it will happen on any pin past the one that's the issue in the wiring loop.

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                          • #14
                            Not the best photo but it gets the job done. We haven't had pindicator lights for probably 30 years but this is our wiring diagram. If you zoom in you can see the previous mechanic drew red lines on the respot wiring.
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