lock out boxes

[THE MAN]

I got an email this week telling me i have to purchase one lockout box for every pinsetterI have . Now dont get me wrong ,I take safety as a number one priority , but this seems like overkill to me. I can see having a lockout for each mechanic , but i think this is a total waste of money that can be spent on machines.Im jus wondering how many of you have a lockout for every machine you have and do you think this is overkill or not. Im sure ill be ordering them soon , I just dont understand why. maybe granger will one a buy one get one special soon;-)

JMO !
Charlie

[Drillmn300]

Re: lock out boxes

What should the price of safety be? Evidently someone has been electrocuted in your area and people don't want to see that happen again.
I don't personally see where it is that bad of deal.

[TheGMan143]

Re: lock out boxes

The reasoning is, that some time in the distant future, you might need to lock out every machine, and you have to have enough lockouts onhand to do so.

Basically, it arose from bureaucratic "safety" BS... but we are obligated to follow the rules. If they say you need one for every machine to be compliant, then you'd better have one for every machine, or they can shut you down for "safety violations". Still makes it a crock of crap (the likelihood of EVERY machine being down at once and in need of a lockout is VERY slim), but they have you over a barrel with it. They can literally shut your doors and not allow you to be open for business until their demands are met. Almost sounds like a hostage situation.

At the one place I worked at, a "safety official" got on me for not having a plug lockout for a machine... I got a little peeved at his attitude and his threats to "shut us down" until we got one. I told him that one was on order and had not come in yet. That wasn't good enough for him... his reasoning was that it was placing people in danger. I asked him how, since the machine was about 6 months old, and was in perfect running condition. I said "it won't place anyone in danger without a lockout unless the damned thing is broken... and it's not. It's brand new, and chances are it won't have any 'lockout-applicable' failures for quite a while... and by then, we'll have the correct lockout for it" Still no good. Finally (since he was holding up the entire operation with his BS, since we couldn't run until they finished their safety checks), I got REALLY peeved, and told him "FINE... if it breaks before the lockout comes in, I'll cut the ****ing plug off of it so it CAN'T be plugged in, and I'LL take the responsibility for making sure that it's not used. No unless you have any other stupidity to throw at me, I have orders to fill". He threatened me with safety violation charges, to which I answered "that's ok... I have 4 witnesses that saw you distracting me and then literally PULL me away while I was operating a machine, because I was ignoring you until the machine finished it's run... after that, I would have shut down and spoken to you... And THAT is a major safety violation. Ever stop to think what could have happened if I lost control of the machine and was either injured, or it hurt someone else? Care to lose your job over it, a$$hole?". He backed off rather quickly. Sad part is, it should have never come to that. If there is a legitemate safety concern, fine, I'm all ears... but that kind of behavior from a 'safety official' is completely unacceptable and wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against safety... I have PREACHED it at every job where I had people working under me, or where their attentiveness to safety was also protecting me... but I have EVERYTHING against some overpaid, underintelligent potatohead with a (most likely) politically-granted job who thinks he can play te 'big man about town' and throw his weight around because he thinks he has some clout... it's a power trip, nothing more. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

[Alan Meyers]

Re: lock out boxes

Finally (since he was holding up the entire operation with his BS, since we couldn't run until they finished their safety checks), I got REALLY peeved, and told him "FINE... if it breaks before the lockout comes in, I'll cut the ****ing plug off of it so it CAN'T be plugged in, and I'LL take the responsibility for making sure that it's not used. No unless you have any other stupidity to throw at me, I have orders to fill". He threatened me with safety violation charges, to which I answered "that's ok... I have 4 witnesses that saw you distracting me and then literally PULL me away while I was operating a machine, because I was ignoring you until the machine finished it's run... after that, I would have shut down and spoken to you... And THAT is a major safety violation. Care to lose your job over it, a$$hole?". He backed off rather quickly. Sad part is, it should have never come to that. If there is a legitemate safety concern, fine, I'm all ears... but that kind of behavior from a 'safety official' is completely unacceptable and wrong.

I have absolutely nothing against safety... I have PREACHED it at every job where I had people working under me, or where their attentiveness to safety was also protecting me... but I have EVERYTHING against some overpaid, underintelligent potatohead with a (most likely) politically-granted job who thinks he can play te 'big man about town' and throw his weight around because he thinks he has some clout... it's a power trip, nothing more.


I LOVE IT !!

[Gadget]

Re: lock out boxes

I have 3 as the most machines i need out for any job is 3, to do a carpet/ bounce plate etc. Should anymore lanes need that amount isolation then i shall lockout the main distribution board and kill all of them.......

I have said it before though, IF any staff, saftey office or even a member of the public decide that they need to un coil the lead that is dangling from the ceiling, plug in the Russel Stohl plug, turn on CB1 and then the BST switches and the mains breaker then i would not be in violation of a saftey rule, i would be up for murder as that person has done 7 things to energise the machine and hurt me, how stupid would they have to be?

[AIR FORCE MECH]

Re: lock out boxes

I have 4 lock out boxes and being on a military base I don't dare not use them when I'm doing a major repair, I also have to tag out the pinspotters I'm workin on...I think one for every pinspotter is over kill.

[wb8yjf]

Re: lock out boxes

IMHO I think that lockout boxes are a pain in the butt. Train your people to ALWAYS unplug a machine when you get into it. If you really think that some idiot is gonna plug in a machine when you are working on it, fire 'em. They are destined to be on the Darwin awards list. I understand safety but at what price? If you have to put the damn box on everytime you have to clear an interlock, then something else is wrong - like the guy who wants to plug the machine in while you are working on it. Like G-man said, it is a moaney maker. I remember a local house where a newbie got electricuted and died - he decided to try to "fix" a *sparking* B.E. motor while the machine was powered up - he died for that "stupidity" sadly. He was NEVER trained to unplug the machine b-4 tackling an electrical problem - unfortunatly he was anxious to fix a "simple" problem & he paid the price. OSHA came in an fined them for the following: No guard on the grinder, chemicals not in approved enclosure (stripper, oil, etc), and a wall socket that had a cracked cover. About $10K. They never did address the fact that this poor guy didn't have proper training about procedures. He was 24. OSHA is a buracracy plain & simple. They make their money by finding stupid things. A lock out may safe a life at times, but in a bowling alley - I belive training the guys in the back about respecting electricity is a MUST. If not & believe me I have seen some pretty stupid things with regards to electric, it is a recipe for disaster.

Just my 2 cents worth....
Jon

[John Isbell]

Re: lock out boxes

The reason for putting a lockout box on each machine is to make it easier to comply with the rules.

Insurance companies charge quite a bit for coverage, a relatively small investment of $10-15 per machine can greatly reduce those premiums.

Statistics show that most injuries involve tenured mechanics, they have been working on the machines for years and may be too comfortable, or perhap not as fast as they once were.

In 35 years I have witnessed stupid accidents, a mechanic is in the machine and another mechanic or counter person comes back and turns the machine on with them inside.....etc.....

It's a simple thing to do.......

Could save you life, or maybe just your finger.

I use them in my classes, if you get caught without it...........

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: lock out boxes

This policy is being adopted at various houses across the country. It looks something like this.



As you can see, the idea is not that you have enough boxes to lock-out every machine but to have a box on every machine...ready to be used. This idea came about due to the lack of mechanics using the lock-out tag-out program within the company they worked for. If the program had been used in this area over 7 years ago...this program would never have been put into place.

[John Isbell]

Re: lock out boxes

BTW, thats Steve's center.
Good ideas come from good people.

Put you plug in your cup........

[dewbowler]

Re: lock out boxes

We have enough boxes to lock out five machines, multiple tags and each mechanic has their own lock with key. I worked industrial maintence in a manual labor brick yard for some 17 years, and our sister plant in California was always getting fined, yet it was an automated plant, go figure?

The loup hole around it was to ask OSHA to do an annual inspection, where as they would come out, tour the plant, write up all the infractions, then give you ample time to repair or replace what was needed. All this without a single fine.

If you are that concerned over OSHA, I would suggest this route of attack, although it will cost some money to bring things up to snuff, it will eliminate the 'Big' fines and honestly, you make their 'goody-two-shoes' list.

[wb8yjf]

Re: lock out boxes

I agree with just about everything in this thread...but I will state one fact - OSHA is a buracracy & has it head up its arse,,,like most government run departments. They really don't give a crap about the worker, its all about the money, baby. If you want to use lockouts, I am 110% behind you, if not, well, I'm 110% behind you. I tend to pay attention to what I'm doing & my surroundings - from driving to a bad part of town to drop off a chassis at midnight to making damn sure the power isn't applied when I crawl into a machine (that includes pulling the C1 connector on a chassis to pulling the motor plugs). Either way, I am responsible for my own safety....PERIOD. I know you guys who have to deal with this buracracy have to play the game. I feel for you. Common sense is gone I guess. Hell, I use to change the clutch in my '68 Nova with only a bumper jack & some pieces of 2X4's! Like I mentioned earlier, the guy got electrocuted for a bad B.E. motor plug & OSHA wrote 'em up for stupid stuff for $10K. TRAIN THE B.E. / FRONT END TO RESPECT ELECTRICITY & they will be OK.

Another 2 cents worth.....

Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[felix]

Re: lock out boxes

Electricians rubber(latex) gloves and boots and (bicycle) helmet - did you put'em on? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Oooops! almost forgot safety googles

[TheLegend]

Re: lock out boxes

As I pointed out to my C-mech trainee today, it's not enough to to be safe.... you have to be idiot proof as well.

John's example of a desk person or some other employee coming back and turing the machine back on is exactly how I described it to my trainee.

[felix]

Re: lock out boxes

So.. all we need is a lockout on the breaker boxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxfelixxxxxxxxxxxxx